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Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

calnewport.com

131–140 of 167 posts

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#131
Facebook is a good example of the damage that can be done by the self imposed jail of binary thinking.

The proposed binary thinking option is users will be detrimentally manipulated and exploited as an advertising product where the manipulation is sometimes intense enough to exacerbate mental illnesses, whereas the binary alternative of deleting everything and going Unibomber will result in extreme social and job related ostracism because obviously "he's trying to hide something".

There are analog middle options that are just as valid as the polarizing binary extremes. I have a perfectly good FB account with plenty of connections, but I only log in every couple months. A little awkward when someone wishes me happy birthday and I don't see it until four months later, but whatever. Most of the time stuff that was posted six months ago is irrelevant today, and likewise I feel pretty safe ignoring most of what was posted today. I find that on FB, as with any other online media, that there's at least 10 to 100 times as much lurking as posting, so there's really not that much to read anyway. For example my best old work friend is about as much of a lurker as I am, so there's really nothing to see.

Or to summarize, the negative effects of deleting your account have nothing to do with the result of "stop using facebook", if you simply stop using it and do not delete your account.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree. Watching tv and browsing social media just temporarily heightens the mood, but then tampers of very quickly. That time could be spend doing something useful like following a hobby, because that increases overall happiness.

People have said this about every media since the book was invented.

Is it wrong, though? If you spend all day doing nothing but reading books, you're not using the time to apply anything that you have read in a book

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don’t find TV a time waster. If you enjoy it, as I do, then do it, guilt-free. However if you find yourself addicted ie you want to do other things but you keep getting “sucked in” then by all means stop - it will have a noticeably positive impact.

I don’t agree. Watching tv and browsing social media just temporarily heightens the mood, but then tampers of very quickly. That time could be spend doing something useful like following a hobby, because that increases overall happiness.

Arguably, framing someone's life behavior as functions of usefulness is antithetical to the need to engage in recreation. The following of TV is useful if your social sphere is amongst other people who watch TV. It builds a canon in which to socialize, discuss, invite people for watching parties, etc.

(I myself do not watch tv but I also have no desire to presume anything of people who do. I at least personally acutely feel a loss of culture because TV and movie watching is very common in socialization rituals and I am unable to engage in them.)

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad the change is working for you. There's definitely such a thing as overdoing TV binges. But all of us need to be cautious about ditching a legitimate entertainment and relaxation medium because it's not "productive", productivity isn't the only goal in life. It's OK to chill out and recharge! (Not in any way criticising you - just the community here often appears obsessed with maximising personal output and I thi…

The bigger point is TV is a poor way to ‘chill and recharge’. It zaps your creative process, deadens your judgment, and isolates you from those around. Reading, conversation with friends/family, poetry, painting, sitting and enjoying a good meal/cigar etc... all have the quality of chill and recharge without the negative effects of TV.

I'll go out on a limb here and defend TV: I think this is a somewhat-outdated view of television.

Modern television isn't just The Big Bang Theory anymore. The line between cinema and television is quickly blurring, with television shows like Chernobyl that are essentially very long films. Even "regular television" can be incredibly enlightening, with shows like Planet Earth exposing us to parts of our own world we might never see otherwise and our imagination might not even do justice!

And much like cinema, sure the experience itself is somewhat isolating in that you're trying to pay attention to it and not converse with those around you. But what's beneficial about some television shows are the emotions they inspire, the conversation they generate after, the fantastical thoughts that come later while you process what you saw.

Sure, garbage exists on television in the same way that pulp fiction (i.e. low-quality literature) never really died out. But I don't think it's fair to dismiss the medium any more than it's fair to dismiss film or literature.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#135
post #88
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of my sons screen time is spent socializing. He rarely watches TV, but he spends a lot of time in multiplayer games where he is simultaneously on discord and building friendships. Yes, he needs face to face socialization too, and he gets plenty of that at school and various other activities, but the point being that screen time can be very passive or it can be active and involve lots of social contact.

When I was younger, I spent quite a lot of "active screen time" with IRC. Back then, it felt like I am connected to other people. In retrospect, it would have been far better for me if I used that time to socialize with real people IRL. If I could go back in time, I would force myself to go out and meet real people, instead of simulated friendships in a chatroom...

Having also spent lots of time on IRC, most IRC channels are very different from voice chats with a circle of close friends. Even an IRC channel with close friends is very different,because it's a much more async communication with bursts of more live interaction Vs. the continued direct interaction of a voice chat during shared gaming.

Personally what he's doing would be hopelessly exhausting to me - I'm quite introvert and the level of social interaction he's engaging in is way above my tolerance level in terms of intensity.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#136
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was younger, I spent quite a lot of "active screen time" with IRC. Back then, it felt like I am connected to other people. In retrospect, it would have been far better for me if I used that time to socialize with real people IRL. If I could go back in time, I would force myself to go out and meet real people, instead of simulated friendships in a chatroom...

Yeah, but your current judgment of what would have been better is tainted by the fact that you spent a lot of time on IRC, so can you really trust it?

Oh yeah, I can trust my assesment that real life contacts (lets call it a network) would have been more useful in the long run. I "wasted" about 10 years of my life spending time in front of a computer, as a sort of escape from the fact that I am an outsider by trade. I would have benefited a lot more if I tried to break that habit much much earlier.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#137
I've stopped using it in 2009 because of a fallout with my classmates.

Sometimes I wonder if I missed social occasions because of not using facebook. Generally I realized facebook didn't really allow to "make new friends" because it lacks "discovery" features.

Now there are social networks who are focused on neighborhood and honestly I wish facebook would do something about discovery. I haven't heard from the facebook dating app either.

Facebook, even if it's successful, feels like such a big waste of potential.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#138
post #92

Related to reducing media exposure and the attendant increase in the sense of wellbeing, this is a lovely article by the Serbian / American poet Charles Simic, about discovering how his dad had attained "Olympian calm": "Like others growing old, I had expected that after everything I had lived through and learned in my life, I would attain a state of Olympian calm and would regard the news of the day with amusement,…

I'm not sure this distinguishes between wellbeing and post-traumatic stress disorder.

Detachment has its place in mental health but that is more when realizing "this is bullshit and doesn't matter". Like keeping up with the Joneses. If you don't actually enjoy any of that or find it useful just saying "fuck that and fuck you" to the social pressures is being anomalously sane.

To be honest all of the 1950s Zeitgeist reeks of suppressed trauma addressed in an unhealthy way. The whole lawn obsession reached a zenith from homesickness in Europe and POW camps - and that is just one of the milder examples. Kids ended up taking this state as a deeply unhealthy norm.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#139
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

time spent in a way that made you feel good isn't wasted. maybe it had no economic output but that isn't a waste. But the long term benefit of TV/Video isn't a diet that's good for you. Consider all the things you could do (not "achieve") if you'd use it for reading books, travel, learning a language or art. What this medium robs you of is boredom, which maybe feels great in the short run, but is hugely damaging to y…

I have never understood why people claim reading is a more worthy use of time than watching tv. Love island probably teaches people more about the human condition than fifty shades does, so pick your poison

For TV, a large number of people are paid enormous amounts of money and put huge efforts into the best result a bland corporate team can produce to increase ad sales by encouraging consumerism. "Love Island" does NOT exist to teach people about the human condition, its only goal is to increase hair spray sales, any other positive effect is simply a happy accident. Even "non profit" TV like PBS mostly exist to entertain the egos and virtue signalling of a small number of major monetary donors.

On the other hand, books are usually written by one person so they have a much stronger and more focused voice, and that strong voice usually has an interesting axe to grind. Or rephrased, if its not interesting or is overly bland, no one reads the book. Admittedly being the most successful at appealing to the groupthink of a sub-population willing to pay for a book is not a Utopian civilization level result, but it is still better than peddling consumerism, and most authors seem to want to get their story out more than they want wealth. Book authors much like pro athletes are a power law distribution where most starve but a microscopic minority get very famous and very rich, so if money were a primary goal they would have gone into finance or software development instead of writing books.

One exists to addict you into consuming ever more bland megacorporate products, the other exists to sell the best ideas, either inherently best, or at least best at meeting existing groupthink demands.

The voice of the product is like the difference between the billionth corporate marketed mcdonalds burger vs a (celebrity?) chef multi course meal.

An excellent analogy would be watching TV would be like following the Walmart twitter account, whereas reading a book would be like reading Paul Graham's blog posts.

Re: Economists study what happens when people stop using Facebook

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" (ii) reduced both factual news knowledge and political polarization; " I interpret that as 'reduced propaganda and it's resultant effects". Much like giving up television.

Polarization has been the trend in the western world for the last decade, slowly but surely countries are being divided and polirized more and more. It doesn't paint a good picture of the future for sure, and social media is part of the problem unfortunately.

Personally I consider polarization the ultimate in intellectual laziness as a scapegoat. The problem is that people disagree! Not that they any stances are particularly evil or insane, factionalism, zero sum thinking, nor any actual solution in mind. Asking if they have any ideas for a solution just gets a dirty look as you commit the faux pau of actually attempting to get people to think. Instead it is just one word which tries to sound smart but is utterly vapid repeated as nausuem as the source of modern ills. Polarization!

Never mind that lack of it has historically lead to /way worse/ outcomes. Unity is not a good thing in itself.

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