It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God." -Jesus Matthew 19:24
For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
- Matthew 13:12
^-- which should not be interpreted as rich people are "righteous" and poor people are "bad," but rather people tend to worship the rich and abuse the poor.
So I’m officially a Mormon but am not a tithing member or active at all. I’ve asked some of my Mormon friends about this and their response is basically “well of course they are, how else would they build Zion in the city of Independence, Missouri?”. They’ve said that’s where the latter days will be spent a long time ago, and they’re preparing to make that a reality “when the time comes”. They have a form of socialis…
> they’re barely getting by, tithing their 10%, but the Mormon church is amassing such wealth yet my friend’s family of five is on food stamps. Something feels off there. The church has welfare programs to help members and non-members that are need. I've personally recommended such food and rent assistance from the church at a point in my life. I've even had the church cover expenses for mental health counseling. I'v…
Absolutely! As I said, I’m officially a member and live in a fairly affluent area. When I was unemployed and going through some tough times, even though I’ve never tithed they extended food aid to me. It was a very humbling experience, and if I didn’t have to believe all the stuff Joseph Smith made up I’d probably be an active Mormon. The ingroup exhortations of beliefs that, charitably, are very unlikely, is something I have a very hard time doing, even though quite honestly my life would be better if I was an active Mormon. I have so much respect for all the work Mormons do, though, and think I’m a better person for having grown up with friends in the church.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God." -Jesus Matthew 19:24
"It is easier for a rich man to enter Heaven seated comfortably on the back of a camel than it is for a poor man to pass through the eye of a needle." - Supply Side Jesus, https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp
Also if he who is first shall be last, then isn't it a pretty conservative choice to be middle class in wealthiness?
I won't address your other points since that's not what HN is about, but the person you responded to didn't say tithing. He said amassing money. 100 billion is an absolutely massive amount of cash to keep on hand for any purpose, and I imagine a good number of people think the money would mostly be going towards charitable causes or something of the sort. Tithing doesn't necessarily entail stockpiles that can buy out…
I thought it was $100B in assets and investments, not cash on hand. Did I understand wrong?
You're right, but that doesn't seem to be GP's core point.
Before I even clicked to see the comments I knew this sentiment would be here. Why is it that anytime a news article is published about some org having a lot of money someone has to say something like this? They have a lot of money. So what? I’m also under the understanding everyone of their members has a years worth of food too. Kind of prescient with cironavirus running around? Full disclosure - I’m not a Mormon.
> So what? It's how they got the money (typically manipulation[0][1] and free-will donations) and how they spend the money (politics, for-profit ventures) [2][3]. [0] http://johnlarsen.org/mormon-expression/ Episode 250 [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/7p09zl/today_i_le... LDS Philanthropies produced a video encouraging wealthy people to leave inheritance with the LDS church to keep their kids in line.…
The tiresome argument is that "organization I don't like has a lot of money... they should stop having a lot of money!"
There may be a plethora of valid reasons to dislike the organization, but it doesn't follow that they shouldn't have a lot of money unless you think nobody should have a lot of money.
And if that is your argument, you should also consider if that includes the US government. We are talking about organizations in this instance, not people.
What I would prefer to see is at least some honest respect for one's enemies. "They are my enemy, but they at least have the same rights as anyone else."
I've found why anybody outside the church should care: «If the whistleblower’s claim is successful, that person could receive up to 30% of the proceeds collected by the IRS.» Meh.
They are stealing from everyone. Churches do not pay taxes. This is supposed to be contingent on not engaging in politics and actually acting like a non-profit.
Some people might be able to claim coercion because tithing is required to participate in certain ceremonies, but I don't see how that's stealing (forced, against one's will).
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God." -Jesus Matthew 19:24
I see this quoted a lot whenever there is discussion of wealth. However, as with all verses, the context is important as well as the follow up verses. This is not in defense of. 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you…
Actually, I think a more apropos saying is:
Unless the children were looting their elder's estate before the burial, there's no U-Haul behind a hearse.
It is often the case that they do. For example, the church that I attend bought adjacent property to keep as vacant open space.. but since there is no church on the land, the church pays property tax on it just like any other non tax exempt entity would. Kind of ironic since if it were farmland deemed open space it would be a different story in most places. Our tax code is not perfect but the path forward is to look…
> Our tax code is not perfect but the path forward is to look at it in totality... the minute you try to solve one problem here, you’ll create a dozen there. Not really. Remove all exemption, deductions, credits, and special treatments.
Generally I’m with you but in the case of religion, I think it’s a bad idea to tax one’s belief in God. The key issue here is the state isn’t supreme... just because there is untaxed wealth doesn’t mean it automatically belongs to the government... especially if we believe in separation of church and state.
That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…
It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?
A lot of what the Mormon Church teaches is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Mormonism and Christianity are two separate things much like Christianity and Judaism are separate.
It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?
The concept of tithing is absolutely taught in the Bible. If you believe Christ to be the God of the Old Testament then He absolutely taught it. You seem to be under the impression all religious people who give tithing are merely being exploited. I can promise you are wrong there. The mentality of "I've had no such experience with God so everyone who claims they have is a kook" is quite ignorant. Perhaps you could le…