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Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

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131–140 of 166 posts

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#131
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

carry cash? no one is going to not accept that

Gas pumps will sometimes work after hours even if a clerk isn’t on duty. Same with other self service situations where a card might be your only payment option. Carrying cash is a last resort; you risk losing it or not having enough.

How often do you lose your wallet? If I lose mine, I won’t be stressing about the $200 inside.

But true enough on the unmanned gas stations.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll wait. Where's the opt-out button on my device to ensure my 4th Amendment right is exercised? Oh, right. It's forced. "Freedom".

E911 is one of those rare, valid exceptions to the bill of rights. Do you think people should be able to falsely yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater too? Plus, it's probably arguable as to whether or not your cell providers' location data on you constitutes a "search" or not. Unless E911 works by transmitting your devices' GPS readings from its own hardware to authorities, but even then I am not sure since they a…

> Unless E911 works by transmitting your devices' GPS readings from its own hardware to authorities

That's exactly how it works:

> When the cellular phone detects that the user is placing an emergency call, it begins to transmit its location to a secure server, from which the [Public Safety Answering Point] can retrieve it. Cellphone manufacturers may program the phone to automatically enable GPS functionality (if disabled) when an emergency call is placed, so that it may transmit its location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Wireless_transm...

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obtaining phone location data is different than a stingray. Not saying it is ok, just totally different.

Triangulation, signal strength, etc. 0 effective difference.

No, a stingray is an active surveillance method... the authorities deploy it and can get information from that point on. It is generally used for an active investigation against a target; of course, it is super problematic because it also intercepts innocent people's calls and can track them, and it is also being used for more and more cases where it is not justified.

However, it is still not the same as the phone company selling location data. They have EVERYONE's location data for all time; it is not like they have to 'turn it on' for you and then are only able to spy on you going forward. They just have all of it, all the time.

The difference is that a stingray is like one cell tower being able to spy on people... the phone company is ALL THE CELL TOWERS being able to spy on you... and not only being ABLE to, are just always doing it no matter what, for everyone.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#134
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to buy it. It's free: https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout

Surely they wouldn't collect, or create data based on, things that aren't here! /s

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've been doing it a lot, and we're trying for a bit better than that. We've already had to ask you once before.

The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#135
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switch banks? I have never once had American Express decline a charge domestic or international. Highly recommend!

carry cash? no one is going to not accept that

actually this isn't true - i was in Seattle and there's at least one cashless Starbucks and one restaurant (Kati Vegan Thai); when i asked at both places they patiently explained that they couldn't accept cash at either one.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#136
post #70

Biggest industry affected is the banks. They’ll ping your phone location if you make out of area purchases as a part of fraud detection. If your bank doesn’t require travel notices, they are probably pulling mobile location. Some don’t, I know chase uses mobile app to determine location.

The saddest thing about this is that my bank no longer requires notification for international travel, but still does for travel within the US. I've had my card shut off for fraud a few times while traveling in the US. Once when I had almost no gas and was outside of cell service, thanks for that. This is presumably due to all transactions outside of the US requiring chip, but those in the US only requiring swipe.

Wait, the US is still on magstripe? Isn't that literally just a bar code? No challenge-response, or encryption? Fraud detection seems like the wrong thing to be focusing on if that's the case...

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true. But Google created the entire damned infrastructure and environment which makes precisely that effect possible, no matter how thinly you slice the hairs on what it is you call the practice.

Sorta an odd take in a thread about telecom companies selling data gathered by the telecom networks that they built.

Do you remember when telephones didn't come with embedded GPS, browser webbugs, G+ NSTIC profiles (https://old.reddit.com/r/plexodus/comments/aa6pmi/a_manhatta..., https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-plus-history-deat...), and OS-level UUIDs?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The saddest thing about this is that my bank no longer requires notification for international travel, but still does for travel within the US. I've had my card shut off for fraud a few times while traveling in the US. Once when I had almost no gas and was outside of cell service, thanks for that. This is presumably due to all transactions outside of the US requiring chip, but those in the US only requiring swipe.

Wait, the US is still on magstripe? Isn't that literally just a bar code? No challenge-response, or encryption? Fraud detection seems like the wrong thing to be focusing on if that's the case...

In my area, almost everything has been chip for the last couple years, except gas stations. My local gas station just installed chip readers a few months ago.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#139
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They (NSA / govt) still warehouse it. They just don’t access it without a warrant. That is the current legal fiction they operate the surveillance state under.

NSA monitors foreign traffic.

Look up how 5 eyes works.

Re: Carrier sales of phone-location data is illegal, FCC plans punishment

#140
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, though Tom Wheeler (previous chairman) was also a lobbyist and he turned out really well.

What does a lobbyist even do? I can't even imagine the scene, they go in a politician's office and just start with "ok hear me out" or am I being naive and it just means finding ways to pay them money?

There's a lot they can do. Lobbyist at a minimum have the same access to a politician as you do. They can make phone calls, send letters, attend and speak at legislative hearings, or try to be involved in the right social circles. Building this social element is important for their continued success and gives them access beyond what a typical person could normally obtain.

More importantly they have influence because some group has a moneyed interest in legislation. This can give them the resources to do the above regularly. They might hire legal counsel to sue governments. They may be able to lend support to pet projects and gain support for their own goals.

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