U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#131

Post by nostromo » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #126

nostromo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonellosis_in_the_United_St... 142,000 cases were reported annually several years ago. Not 1.3 million. So it is indeed an order of magnitude off. Imagine comparing estimated flu infections vs people that go to the doctor for flu and you'd get similarly ridiculous results.

You are comparing apples and oranges. The 142000 number is from chicken, alone. The 1.3 (or 1.2 at the top of the same wiki page you cite) is for all sources. There is a epidemiological problem here, of a) reported vs. estmated and b) the basis of both those things. But it isn't the one you thought it was.

The context of this thread is chicken, but thanks for noting that. But the point stands -- estimated infections cannot be compared with reported cases.

If you can find actual reported cases in the US from all sources, that would be great to compare -- otherwise we shouldn't make the comparison at all.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#132

Post by joecool1029 » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #117

joecool1029 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sure, lets all just drink hydrogen peroxide. I use hydrogen peroxide to disinfect contact lenses. It neutralizes into water and oxygen in the presence of a catalyst. It would do that over a long enough period when exposed to air. I linked a paper in the thread elsewhere that shows the same decay for the chicken washes. Using peroxide as a lens disinfectant has advantages over other multi-purpose solutions which caus…

Tell me more about contacts and corneal staining. This comment is the first I've heard about it.

So the thing you need to know is there's 2 categories of soft contacts that are currently on the market. Hydrogels and Silicone Hydrogels (SiHy). The latter are newer and have become much more common as they are in theory healthier for the eye (they allow more oxygen to pass through). There's some drawbacks though in that the material isn't inherently wettable because silicone is hydrophobic by nature. This means it's a bit more complex to formulate a material and there's some quirks to it, notably it's usually stiffer. This might affect how solutions interact with the surface.

Corneal staining is basically scratching of the outer part of your eye. It is usually asymptomatic but can result in a burning sensation. It was found that the surface of SiHy is affected by what material is used to clean them. This link includes some research and plenty of linked studies: https://contactlensupdate.com/2013/08/14/what-do-we-know-abo... I had a better link that compared various products on the market but I'm unable to find it as this time.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#133

Post by ska » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

tapland wrote: post #107

cooljacob204 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual reported numbers from both ends. But this is a tricky case because our culture, healthcare and governments are different. I'm definitely not an expert on the matter but comparing an estimate vs a reported value is silly.

I've heard that people in the US are discouraged from eating raw eggs. That makes it sound like the EU would be at greater risk, but if we the US doesn't do proper measurements we can pretend that it makes it impossible to even attempt to compare.

Eggs are a funny one, as the regulation is very different between US and EU.

In the US all commercial eggs must be washed, which destroys the cuticle and is why eggs are stored in a fridge to keep fresh. In the EU commercial eggs cannot be washed, and are typically stored outside the fridge (and vaccinated against salmonella, iirc).

There is a lot of contention about the effect on bacterial culturing, but research I've seen suggests it's a bit of a wash (e.g. 10.1371/journal.pone.0090987)

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#134

Post by ska » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

amorroxic wrote: post #75

cooljacob204 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an estimate vs reported cases. Not exactly good numbers to compare.

Genuinely interested in good numbers to compare then, any chance to elaborate?

This is a genuinely hard problem between jurisdictions, because reporting tends to be done in terms of statistics only, with differing (and often unreported) data methods, etc.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#135

Post by OldFatCactus » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

jldugger wrote: post #49

gadders wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just protectionism. It's not like the chicken tastes of bleach. Have you ever eaten food in the US?

I'm not sure we can trust US resident's opinions on taste as long as Hershey's chocolate still exists.

Supposedly our pasteurization standards are absurdly high as well, so very likely we don't know what real cheese tastes like either

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#136

Post by 40acres » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

I don't cook meat without chemically washing it either. I was raised on washing meats with vinegar and sour orange and don't compromise on it at all. Chemically washed is quite the spin considering US rates on food poisoning are probably quite low.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#137

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #63

mxscho wrote: post #13

> Perdue on Monday defended [...] the technique to disinfect poultry [...], arguing that U.S. farmers now use a chemical called peracetic acid rather than chlorine: "Peracetic acid ... is a great pathogen reduction treatment. You know what it is? It's vinegar, essentially. To say that's unsafe or not to be used, we don't think there's a basis for that in sound science." I always thought the EU doesn't want this proce…

I don't want meat washed in vinegar, bleh. Maybe co-incidentally, that's how some supermarkets used to prolong the shelf life of meat once it started becomming smelly and sticky. Just washed it like that in vinegar, and re-packaged it. Like 20 years ago. Thanks but no thanks.

...meat... in vinegar, bleh...

Do you really not like chicken adobo? You are the first [non-vegetarian] person I've ever encountered for whom this is the case.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#138

Post by pintxo » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

guitarbill wrote: post #61

mrec wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, from what I've seen this is the primary objection (aside from realpolitik considerations i.e. wanting to keep agricultural prices high). Salad has routinely been chlorine-washed in Europe for years, and nobody complains about that.

I hope most people would agree chickens are a bit more sentient than salad.

They are about as sentient as the salad when this washing we are talking about occurs. (I really hope I understood it correctly that this happens after they have been killed)

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#139

Post by gadders » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

jldugger wrote: post #49

gadders wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just protectionism. It's not like the chicken tastes of bleach. Have you ever eaten food in the US?

I'm not sure we can trust US resident's opinions on taste as long as Hershey's chocolate still exists.

I'm actually British, and live in Kent. And I agree, Hersheys chocolate tastes like sick. And FWIW I keep chickens and geese for eggs.

On the face of it "chlorinated chicken" sounds unappealing, but I've been to America multiple times over the years, eaten all sorts of food (including chicken) and never noticed any difference or ill effects.

Like most people here, I get to choose what food I eat. I could eat organic, ethically sourced meat every day if I chose to. However, if chlorinated chicken let's people on a lower income eat better than before, I'm all for it.

Re: U.S. wants the EU to accept chemical-washed chicken as part of trade deal

#140

Post by no1youknowz » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 6:40 PM UTC

antr wrote: post #6

brummm wrote: post #2

I really hope the EU will not allow this kind of US meat into the EU market...

If the EU doesn't the UK will

> If the EU doesn't the UK will

The noises from the UK are that it won't [0]. But in reality let's see.

We won't really know what happens until the ink has dried on the trade deal with the US and it has been published.

> The UK will not lower food standards to secure a post-Brexit trade deal with the US, the government says.

[0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47418505