Earlier quoted context omitted.
That was a coordinated PR move between Apple and the government. The US administration went into heavy damage control mode with the large tech companies after the Snowden revelations about PRISM et c.
Do you have any evidence for that? Sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory to me.
Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
131–140 of 734 posts
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#132The iCloud security overview [1] says iCloud backups are encrypted "in transit" and "on server", but indeed doesn't say much about the encryption keys. There is "end-to-end encryption" on just a few items (iCloud keychain, WiFi passwords, etc.) 1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
So not even photos are E2E encrypted? Nor Voice Memos, notes... nothing that is not written in the second list?
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#133Beyond HN and tech circles, is there any detectable groundswell of demand for privacy? When you talk with friends & family about privacy, does anyone care? When average people care about privacy, the large players will respond. Until then, pressure from the state can be accommodated without irking customers, so Big Tech will play along.
Obviously there is. Otherwise it wouldn't be advertised on billboards and television. Privacy is just like your personal health everyone wants a convenient solution but no company can honestly offer it. (Doesn't stop then from pretending they do)
Immediate giveaway that its just PR...
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#134Are the iMessages in an iCloud backup encrypted or not? As of now. It seems actually unclear.
Yes, but the key is stored in your iCloud backup if you use it. As soon as you disable iCloud backups it will roll the key for iMessage and they will be effectively E2E encrypted. When Messages in iCloud is enabled, iMessage, Business Chat, text (SMS), and MMS messages are removed from the user’s existing iCloud Backup, and are instead stored in an end-to-end encrypted CloudKit container for Messages. The user’s iClo…
Assuming this is true, you still don't know what people on the other end will do, meaning it is never actually E2E encrypted.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#135Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#136Beyond HN and tech circles, is there any detectable groundswell of demand for privacy? When you talk with friends & family about privacy, does anyone care? When average people care about privacy, the large players will respond. Until then, pressure from the state can be accommodated without irking customers, so Big Tech will play along.
"And if we actually think about it, it doesn’t make sense. Because privacy isn’t about something to hide. Privacy is about something to protect. That’s who you are. That's what you believe in. Privacy is the right to a self. Privacy is what gives you the ability to share with the world who you are on your own terms. For them to understand what you’re trying to be and to protect for yourself the parts of you you’re not sure about, that you’re still experimenting with.
"If we don’t have privacy, what we’re losing is the ability to make mistakes, we’re losing the ability to be ourselves. Privacy is the fountainhead of all other rights. Freedom of speech doesn’t have a lot of meaning if you can’t have a quiet space, a space within yourself, your mind, your community, your friends, your family, to decide what it is you actually want to say.
"Freedom of religion doesn’t mean that much if you can’t figure out what you actually believe without being influenced by the criticisms of outside direction and peer pressure. And it goes on and on.
"Privacy is baked into our language, our core concepts of government and self in every way. It’s why we call it 'private property.' Without privacy you don’t have anything for yourself."
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#137Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…
Apple could (have) issue(d) an update with code to steal yr anything, without you knowing, so FBI-or-whatever does not "complain".
I currently use one e2e service, BitWarden as keychain, that ticks the boxes (e2e AND open source client).
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#138Apple has a list for that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 These are end to end: Home data Health data (requires iOS 12 or later) iCloud Keychain (includes all of your saved accounts and passwords) Payment information QuickType Keyboard learned vocabulary (requires iOS 11 or later) Screen Time Siri information Wi-Fi passwords The messages also end to end but the backup contains the private key. The moral of…
I thought iMessage private keys are somehow based on data in the "secure enclave" chip, and thus not able to be stored in the cloud. It's my understanding that Apple could add new "devices" to listen in on future conversations, but it can't read iMessage conversations in transit between existing devices. It can also read iCloud backups of conversation content, which are created by the client device after decrypting t…
> Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures you can recover your Messages if you lose access to iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.
But wait does it mean that if you haven't iCloud backup activated but use local backup you can actually sync message without storing private key... the wording here is important would be nice if someone clarify.
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#139“ Reuters could not determine why exactly Apple dropped the plan.
“Legal killed it, for reasons you can imagine,” another former Apple employee said he was told, without any specific mention of why the plan was dropped or if the FBI was a factor in the decision.”
And further on: “ However, a former Apple employee said it was possible the encryption project was dropped for other reasons, such as concern that more customers would find themselves locked out of their data more often.”
So 4 of the 6 sources were speculating (FBI), and one actively admits they don’t know the reason, but the lede says 6 sources confirmed this. Hmmm...
Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
You vote every time you decide to buy or not to buy.
You vote if you actually have a choice. What choice is there beyond Apple or Google in terms of smartphones? And I mean actual, ergonomic, everyday convenient choice -- my mother will firmly refuse me if I said "I'll buy you a phone but will have to tinker a full weekend to make it half-privacy-aware". And even if she was on board, she'll just yell at me if she can't do a basic task (this is a controversial topic aro…
We (that is, tech users) have a choice, if we choose it. The ones who don't are the people who can't take that option (ie, your mother). You've stated as much.
What is your choice today, as someone technically inclined?
Well - you mentioned modded Android; but there are several other options, if you don't mind fiddling with things.
More than a few phone operating systems are out there, many open source.
For hardware, probably among the best right now is the Pine64 phone (it's currently in a strange "high-beta" state - you can order one, and it will supposedly be close to what will eventually be sold, but it isn't completely considered a "commercial product").
Alternatively, you could build a phone using a Raspberry Pi (or a similar board, like a Beaglebone or something), or an Arduino (you'll be very limited in what you can do using a standard Arduino - basically make/take calls, store some contacts, maybe SMS).
Note that most phone modules out there are 2/3G - but you can find 4G/LTE modules, fairly cheap if you know what you're looking for.
Your "phone" won't look pretty, but you probably know that. It will likely be fragile at times, and the software quality will depend on what you can find and what you can code yourself. Cloud storage, games, etc - will all be mostly up to you to implement in some manner.
A lot of work, certainly - but that's the only real option, as you can never be absolutely certain, if you're not in control of at least the OS and software.
But for everyone else? Yeah - they don't have any choice, unless they are willing to step up their knowledge (and most aren't, nor should they have to).