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Medications that change who we are

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Re: Medications that change who we are

#131
post #70

Definitely 100% true, first hand experience here. I had mild medication prescribed for regulating blood pressure. Supposedly without psychological side effects. I found out a year later that it dramatically affected my personality. More or less like in the article, but in the opposite way. The frightening thing is, I didn't know !!! I found out a year later when temporarily stopping the medication, my kids started to…

> I took this medication for a year without realizing anything was wrong Looks like you were also maybe not really paying attention to your behavior back in those times, as it looks like you would caught such a behavioral change sooner if you were to take medication again, don't you think?

Indeed, in hindsight it should have been obvious. It's less obvious at the moment itself.

In life, many things are hidden in plain sight.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#132
post #57

Definitely 100% true, first hand experience here. I had mild medication prescribed for regulating blood pressure. Supposedly without psychological side effects. I found out a year later that it dramatically affected my personality. More or less like in the article, but in the opposite way. The frightening thing is, I didn't know !!! I found out a year later when temporarily stopping the medication, my kids started to…

In what way did your personality change?

It's difficult to go into details, but lets say I became less focused and driven in both work and personal life, but also an easier person to work with. The kids perceived this evolution as very positive.

I'm on different medication now, but some effects appear to be irreversible.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what medication it was?

I'll wager it was a beta blocker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker#Anxiety

Spot on, indeed. However, I wasn't suffering from anxiety, and so the effect was a unexpected. Actually, stress indeed disappeared, but for me stress was never an issue. I used to draw a lot of energy out of my (positive) stress.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people feel one’s essence is fundamentally different from one’s body, including the brain as part of the body. Not saying I support this notion, but to brush it aside as stupid or unjustified seems a bit hasty in view of the huge literature behind these issues. I don't think it is. Consider: someone decides to say something without evidence. It's obviously okay to brush this aside and just say "there's no evid…

What's the evidence that there is a brain or body in the first place, which is a big part of the original discussion? No, I don't mean that just because Plato said it cannot be "stupid", but you have clearly provoked the crowd bringing philosophy to the fore, and broadly speaking philosophy is where you stop having certain evidence for anything, as it precisely challenges anything deemed certain. Once the body is ass…

> What's the evidence that there is a brain or body in the first place, which is a big part of the original discussion?

I'll sidestep this by saying that for my purposes, reality is just a theorized model of what our senses perceive. If we don't trust our senses, then it's possible none of the things we perceive exist, but who cares? The things we perceive as our brain and body can be modeled to predict what we will perceive in the future.

> broadly speaking philosophy is where you stop having certain evidence for anything

That's not how I define philosophy, but I won't get into a semantic argument about what philosophy is. I also think saying things are "certain" is almost always a mistake. All I'll say is that if that if you define philosophy as eschewing evidence, then I'm happy to dismiss all of what you consider philosophy. If you aren't able to produce evidence (empirical or logical) for the statements you make, then all you're doing is stringing together words into grammatically-correct but meaningless sentences, which is not a skill I care about by itself.

I'm happy to say that I don't think all philosophers share your view that evidence is unnecessary, so there are many people who I would respect who I would also call philosophers.

> Once the body is assumed and our senses trusted,

I don't think we can assume that. Nor should we. Nor is there any value in doing so.

Let's temporarily assume the opposite: let's assume our senses are lying to us. If that's so, I'd argue that our senses lie to us in consistent, predictable manners. I can predict how my senses will lie to me in the future based on how they are lying to me now, and how they have lied to me in the past. If I choose to tell my fake body to let go of a fake ball, my senses will lie to me and tell me that the fake ball falls toward the fake earth. Every fake morning, my senses lie to me and tell me that the fake sun rises.

How would my situation differ if all this were real? If I really dropped a real ball and it really fell toward the real earth, would that be different? If a real sun rose in the real morning, how would that change my experience? In short, a falsehood so complete that it is completely indistinguishable from the truth is not meaningfully different from the truth. If I put my hand on a hot stove and sense pain, does it matter whether that pain is real or fake? I don't think it does.

> if you find solid evidence it'll be about how the brain differs (or not) from the rest of the body, not about the presence or absence of a mind or soul.

That's true, which is why minds and souls should be relegated to the fiction section of the bookstore, with ghosts, werewolves, elves, and all the other fictional things we don't sense with our senses. I'm not saying these things aren't fun to think about, they just shouldn't be considered as existent phenomena on which we base our beliefs and decisions.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

Plato's allegory of the Cave is about the liberation provided by education, and self-awareness. How gaining understanding of your environment freed you from the limited reality it presented you. The initial usage of the story was to illustrate how political indoctrination could present a false reality to ardent followers "the shadows of cave fire for those raised in the cave", and how education could "open the eyes a…

Are you saying that two thousand years of nominalism vs. realism are based on a misunderstanding of Plato?

(And, doesn't sun worship predate philosophy by a good bit?)

Re: Medications that change who we are

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blood pressure medicine does make you more calm and this is known anecdotally among the medical community. I know this because I know of medical students taking it before giving a speech. Literally the medicine is well known for making you perfectly calm. You know that magic pill that can get rid of your approach anxiety? I hear, this is it, though I never tried. I'm wondering if anyone more in the "know" can comment…

> You know that magic pill that can get rid of your approach anxiety ... wondering if anyone more in the "know" can comment on it. BLUF (bottom line up front): Try biofeedback to regulate level of emotional arousal before an anticipated stressor or critical decision or event. COMMENTARY You may be referring to “Propranolol” “Propranolol is occasionally used to treat performance anxiety... benefits appear similar to b…

Thank you for all this detailed feedback, this actually helps a lot in understanding.

"I suspect it’s not doing anything direct for your anxiety, rather damping the racing heartbeat and increased blood pressure you usually experience in anticipation of stress (PTSD style association), and without that biofeedback sensor, your metacognition of anxiety doesn’t ramp up as much."

That's it. Heartbeat is gone, anxiety is still there. Also the "adrenaline rush" is gone.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

> Your mind and your body are the same thing. That is incorrect, but unfortunately a very common misunderstanding. The mind is highly correlated with the brain but it is not the brain. It’s easy to see this is the case because the brain is made up of a qualitatively different material than the mind. While the brain is composed of biological cells / chemistry / atoms, the mind is composed of things like sense-percepti…

"The mind is highly correlated with the brain but it is not the brain."

... in roughly the same way that a process is not a processor. Or a program, for that matter.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#138
I take gabapentin for a spinal issue (nerve damage in my spine) and it has a drastic and noticeable effect, I'm naturally quiet and introverted but when I take the higher prescribed dose that changes radically, I become outgoing and talkative, I have more confidence and I seem to be more creative (though that could just be the reduction in pain).

It definitely alters my mood and I can feel it happen.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#139

I take gabapentin for a spinal issue (nerve damage in my spine) and it has a drastic and noticeable effect, I'm naturally quiet and introverted but when I take the higher prescribed dose that changes radically, I become outgoing and talkative, I have more confidence and I seem to be more creative (though that could just be the reduction in pain). It definitely alters my mood and I can feel it happen.

That's essentially what MDMA does too.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#140
post #100

>"It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains." I feel like perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals - your brain is your body. It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. People think they can take an a…

“perpetuating this mindset is the ultimate sin of modern psychiatry and the entire industry of psychiatric pharmaceuticals” O-kaaaay. But, as the science kids all say: [Citation required] (Please note Scopie’s Law is now in full effect.)

>Citation required

https://youtu.be/twhvtzd6gXA

>"Depression may be related to an imbalance of natural chemicals between nerve cells in the brain. Prescription Zoloft works to correct this imbalance."

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