Official list of victims' nationality [1]:
Iran: 82 Canada: 63 Ukraine: 2 + 9 crew members Sweden: 10 Afghanistan: 4 Germany: 3 UK: 3
[1] https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1214821876742213632
Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
131–140 of 220 posts
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Ukrainian embassy reported preliminary information indicates engine failure, and excludes a rocket or terrorist attack as cause. [1] Particularly at this time, I wouldn't trust random sources on the web to provide accurate information about events. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-cras...
I see it's too immature to conduct an engine failure in this situation without investigation report.
That's probably why they said "preliminary information indicates". And the rumors of a missile was probably the reason why they felt the need of putting out a statement in the first place.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#133https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ps752#23732569 Is there a reason a flights transponder data would just suddenly cut off in the middle of the air in case of engine failure? Maybe really explosive engine failure? I recall seeing the full history (right up until the plane hits the ground), in other cases of airplane crashes.
Well, if it exploded in the air (which is what the videos suggest happened), the transponder will most likely stop working.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#134Happening hours after Iran's strike against bases in Iraq raises the obvious question: is this in any way related to the strikes or a coincidence? I'm guessing it'll be at least a few months before we hear about the why but I wonder if there will be additional focus on it due to the recent tensions.
We still haven't really agreed on who shot down MH17. It'll be quite a while before the truth gets out - if it ever does.
Who is we? The Dutch led joint investigation team have said it was a Buk missile and they charged three Russians and an Ukrainian. They also claimed to have evidence showing that Russia provided the missile launcher.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth. Come on. Don't do this. Planes are complex machines. They're pressurized and propelled by a continuous explosion. There are lots of ways for things to go wrong. A good rule of thumb in aviation is to ignore the first 24 hours of news. There are no facts. Everyone is an armchair crash investigator. And…
Then we should just close this thread since literally everything will be speculation at this point.
> I don't see the problem with speculation
It's intellectually dishonest, particularly when baseless speculation is framed by an "it looks like."
It crowds out fact-driven discussion.
It's disrespectful and potentially hurtful.
It could be mistaken for informed commentary, in which case it's misleading. (When I’ve done it, the first victim is myself.)
And to top it off, it's useless. Totally useless. Nobody walks away with a deeper understanding. No new perspectives. Just screaming into a void.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well the question is, what is the motive behind releasing this statement? It doesn't really benefit Ukraine to shit on Boeing so rashly and publicly because they're still beholden to US support. The calculation behind the messaging is very curious. Did Iran request Ukraine to release this statement? Why would Ukraine oblige them. Did the US ask Ukraine because maybe Iranians will attribute the crash to US hostility l…
To me it looks like Ukrainian embassy in Teheran reported to Ukraine what Iranians told them. This then gets repeated in Ukrainian media, picked up by western media and we have a story how Ukrainian embassy says it's not a missile. I doubt they know for sure at this moment. There is no way anyone can know cause of the crash unless if it was shot down or bombed (in that case the missile comanders and/or terrorists wou…
>There is no way anyone can know cause of the crash unless if it was shot down or bombed (in that case the missile comanders and/or terrorists would know).
There's enough surveillance on Iranian airspace after the missile launches that every state-actor with the capability in the region should be able to determine whether the plane was shot down.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It looks like it was shot down with an air defense missile. You can see the plane on fire as it falls to the earth. Come on. Don't do this. Planes are complex machines. They're pressurized and propelled by a continuous explosion. There are lots of ways for things to go wrong. A good rule of thumb in aviation is to ignore the first 24 hours of news. There are no facts. Everyone is an armchair crash investigator. And…
what is the point of this being the top post on HN then if there’s no point to speculation? What are people supposed to be commenting for, really?
> What are people supposed to be commenting for, really?
I don't know. And I don't have to know.
Just because one can't come up with a value-adding comment doesn't require the content be censored. Nor does it mean the void should be filled with nonsense.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Ukrainian embassy reported preliminary information indicates engine failure, and excludes a rocket or terrorist attack as cause. [1] Particularly at this time, I wouldn't trust random sources on the web to provide accurate information about events. [1] https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/iran-plane-cras...
How much can you trust government agencies in times like these? With so many competing intelligence agencies, quite possibly sitting on the brink of WWIII, I don't think it's outlandish for an official source to lie, intentionally or not.
They might not even be lying: would it be classified as a "terrorist attack" if it's a mistake by the Iranians? A "rocket attack" wouldn't hit an airplane, you need guided missiles for that.
Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board
#139Does anyone remember how much time it took to nail down the cause of MH17 crash? If memory serves me right, during the MH17 shoot down over Ukraine it was established quite early that it was a work of a surface to air missile launched by rebels. If Iran did really shoot down the plane by mistake, can they cover it up by not giving access to the debris?
The investigation is on Iranian soil. There is no access to the FAA or similar agencies. Iran would have every reason to want to cover up an erroneous missile launch. In Ukraine, there was a cooperative effort to investigate the crash, and it was found to be a Russian missile.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. But others are saying it is possible to track missiles with systems other countries have. So, hopefully we will have some answer.