Chrome OS has stalled out • Hacker News Board

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#131

Post by brunoTbear » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

zouhair wrote: post #106

andrewmutz wrote: post #73

I use Chrome OS daily to do my job and I think it is fantastic. IMO it is the ultimate work machine for your average knowledge worker. At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. For non-engineers, the OS provides an extremely simple client to use to do their job. The OS is a slightly better web…

I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/

This is a confusing and boring take.

A) You have to trust third parties.

B) It's boring to point out what Google has killed. But when you look at that list there's nothing as substantial as ChromeOS.

Finally, ChromeOS is incredibly widely used internally, and is a revenue generating product in the Chromebook family sold to enterprises alongside Cloud products. It is not an area where Google is going to capitulate or kill without a sufficiently long runway and carefully considered EOL plan.

Disclosure: am Googler. Am tired of half-considered takes on Google.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#132

Post by brunoTbear » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 6:59 PM UTC

3xblah wrote: post #122

andrewmutz wrote: post #73

I use Chrome OS daily to do my job and I think it is fantastic. IMO it is the ultimate work machine for your average knowledge worker. At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. For non-engineers, the OS provides an extremely simple client to use to do their job. The OS is a slightly better web…

"All your stuff is up in the cloud." What happens if the knowledge worker loses their connection to the "cloud".

ChromeOS has offline support for docs editing. Everywhere, even airplanes, have reliable wifi these days. Connections to the cloud are only becoming more reliable. Your take is FUD and old.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#133

Post by heavenlyblue » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 6:59 PM UTC

brunoTbear wrote: post #131

zouhair wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/

This is a confusing and boring take. A) You have to trust third parties. B) It's boring to point out what Google has killed. But when you look at that list there's nothing as substantial as ChromeOS. Finally, ChromeOS is incredibly widely used internally, and is a revenue generating product in the Chromebook family sold to enterprises alongside Cloud products. It is not an area where Google is going to capitulate or…

What’s the margin vs Google’s ad business?

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#134

Post by ajross » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #46

ajross wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... you want a high end laptop? Those are available, even with ChromeOS installed. But they're not any cheaper. Hardware is hardware. When people talk about price being an advantage for Chromebooks, they mean at the low end, where the OS can operate well on hardware that Windows doesn't tolerate, and where the windows license fees become a significant part of the selling price. Try a comparison of devices around $3…

That is what I paid for an Asus Netbook 1215B, delivered with Ubuntu LTS.

Right, and for basically the same reason. Fundamentally ChromeOS is just another linux distro.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#135

Post by pier25 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

zouhair wrote: post #106

andrewmutz wrote: post #73

I use Chrome OS daily to do my job and I think it is fantastic. IMO it is the ultimate work machine for your average knowledge worker. At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. For non-engineers, the OS provides an extremely simple client to use to do their job. The OS is a slightly better web…

I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/

> I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future

I think both Chrome OS and Android will be replaced by Fuchsia at some point. Native apps will be written in Dart/Flutter and they will also support web Chrome apps like Chrome OS does today.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#136

Post by zouhair » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

dontblink wrote: post #110

zouhair wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think relying on a third party and especially one that is as fickle as Google to do the most basic workload is a sound idea. I won't be surprised if Google kills Chrome OS in the near future, as they killed a lot of stuff already[0]. I don't trust Google anymore. [0]: https://killedbygoogle.com/

Honestly this trope is tiring. FUD.

How is it FUD? They literally keep killing years old projects. A lot of those project had a lot of regular users that added them to their workload for years just for Google to scrap them with no alternative.

How one can trust them is beyond me.

Then there is horror stories like this one[0]

[0]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWaz7ofl5wQ

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#137

Post by pengo » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

I was a Google evangelist until the penny finally dropped and I saw that their business model was a disease. Chrome OS is cool, as are many of Alphabet's products past and future. But I no longer use any Google products or have a Google account, and actively take steps to prevent them having even passing access to any of my data.

I think there are good use cases for a cloud-based OS, and it's something I could be interested in using, even helping develop. But, like Android and Search, Chrome OS is just another harvester of personal information to feed Google's advertising profit machine.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#138

Post by dfabulich » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

Access to files is the critical issue here. Look at these examples from the article:

> Chrome OS doesn't have a robust photo editor? Don't worry, you can download an [Android] app! Chrome doesn't have native integration with cloud file services like Box, Dropbox, or OneDrive? Just download the app! Chrome doesn't have Microsoft Office? App!

The problem is that Chrome OS is attempting to be a desktop platform, using web apps and mobile apps.

Desktop OSes (Windows, macOS) are all about files. Apps are files. Your documents, photos, and videos are files. Any app can access any of your files.

On mobile, you don't normally interact with files. Apps aren't files; you launch apps directly from the app launcher, and they store data internally; when you delete an app, its data is deleted, too.

Web apps are like mobile apps: they don't have access to your files. You can't make a web app photo editor that opens a file, makes some changes, and then saves those changes to the file. Instead, you have to "upload" the file to the web app, and then you have to "download" the modified file.

Microsoft Office has a web version (Office 365), but it's like Google Docs, lacking access to your local files. Dropbox has a web app, but it just lets you download files one at a time; it's impossible to implement Dropbox-like file synchronization in a web app.

Google is aware of this problem, but you might not like their proposed "solution," to develop a cross-browser standard file access API. https://web.dev/native-file-system/ Google's currently running an "origin trial," where a small number of web sites have temporary access to the feature to try it out.

I think Google's not going to ship it until they convince Apple or Mozilla to approve; it's not clear when (or if) that will happen. Here's the most recent discussion from May. https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/154

So file access isn't technically "stalled out," but it's still going to take a long, long time.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#139

Post by lowdose » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

andrewmutz wrote: post #73

I use Chrome OS daily to do my job and I think it is fantastic. IMO it is the ultimate work machine for your average knowledge worker. At my company, all the software that we use is web-based (SaaS), with the exception of software engineers, who are using local tools to develop web based applications. For non-engineers, the OS provides an extremely simple client to use to do their job. The OS is a slightly better web…

I second this 100%. But this needs to be advocated more. Yesterday on a trending ask HN question how to prevent technology scams for family members I recommended a chromebook. But every negative windows os comment gets downvoted so hard that it left me 0 points at the bottom.

Ask HN How do you protect your parents against tech scammers?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21934736

My answer:

> Give them a chromebook. No virus scanner or firewall needed. It's 2020 and the "Personal Computer" paradigm is past its expiration date. Want to keep hobbying with Windows and manage your "PC" like a pet, good luck with that! Hardware should be managed like cattle with a cloud native setup if you ask me. Racehorse owners loose 90 cent on every dollar invested, cowboys fly helicopters.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#140

Post by pier25 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 7:17 PM UTC

Maybe Google had high hopes at turning Chrome OS into Android for desktop but, as the article points out, it failed miserably.

At my last job in ed tech we developed and maintained a Chrome OS app for about 3 years. Not an Android app, but a web app for Chrome OS.

I had great hopes for the platform for education use but it turned out developing for Chrome OS was a terrible mess. Docs are incomplete and cryptic, there are strange dev restrictions like not being able to use localStore, erratic behaviors of the apps, nowhere to go for help, the chrome web store dashboard was totally obsolete by today's standards, etc.

It felt very bizarre seeing Google doing all the marketing on their new flashy Chrome OS devices, Android apps, and Linux support, while at the same time looking at the docs and working on what seemed like an abandoned project.

I think ultimately Google will replace Chrome OS with Fuchsia. Maybe Fuchsia took longer than expected so they had to improvise and bring Android and Linux to keep the platform alive for a couple more years.