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Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

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Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#131
post #82

To those of you pushing for ActivityPub: Webber's trashed it (the initial author) and is working on a way to mitigate the problems of it by implementing incompatible changes, the biggest piece of software claiming to implement it doesn't even implement it (Mastodon), the only piece of software that stays semi-faithful is full of devs who hate it (Pleroma). AP is completely broken for anything but publicly-scoped cont…

I've contribute to Mastodon and run an instance. Yes, it's very silly to think you can use Activity Pub for non-public things .. but isn't that going to be true of ANY distributed social networking protocol? Direct point-to-point we can make secure (relatively) yes. You can run your own e-mail server, setup up PGP keys, and once you make it through that usability nightmare, you now have secure e-mail (if you trust yo…

Not necessarily, if you use an actor-model where content is addressable using cryptographic keys, then you can get an object-capability system where having a reference to a piece of content is sufficient to grant access to it. This seems to be the way that some people are going with newer designs.

Also, the way you ban people is basically by having unique capabilities handed out to everyone. Then you can do various things to stop access (it's called a revoker in ocap jargon). See http://habitatchronicles.com/2017/05/what-are-capabilities/

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#132
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just say that and not tell who you think is last

It's going to be Oracle.

Pretty sure Oracle trumps Google too, which puts them in second. I guess that makes Twitter third-to-last on that list.

... and Oracle's got one hell of a lead on the rest of the race.

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#133

Cool idea, sure. Maybe they should have had the marketing team look at the banner image before going live. Definitely undermines the perceived legitimacy of the effort in my opinion: https://twitter.com/bluesky

I love that little creature. Why don't you?

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#134
post #110
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I m surprised every time i see people here asking for the evil that is censorship. Dorsey wants a decentralized system exactly because he won't be held liable for not censoring people. It makes sense business-wise and it's a win-win for humanity. Twitter has become a trigger-happy-people-fest because each group knows they can weaponize censorship against each other. With systems that are uncensored , nobody complaint…

> It makes sense business-wise and it's a win-win for humanity. Does it make sense business-wise? What business will want to be on a system that has no moderation? It's just asking for your brand to be accidentally or intentionally associated with undesirable things.

google is in the email business

tons of businesses send promotional emails , even though they know the protocol is also used for sending porjn

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#135
> Instead he pointed to the principle of decentralization, and key technologies, such as blockchain, as the solution.

Ah... so that's how he's going to get the funding: https://external-preview.redd.it/CypLdP3MLDVm15Lwm1f-M98gyMh...

Why else would you need to insert a blockchain into the solution? Scuttlebutt (https://scuttlebutt.nz/) is already one possible solution and they wouldn't have to reinvent some new protocol.

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#136

ActivityPub? Who cares about what JSON schema gets adopted? Much more interesting is the why, not the how. #1 reason to decentralize: "Centralized enforcement of global policy to address abuse and misleading information is unlikely to scale over the long-term without placing far too much burden on people." #2 reason: "The value of social media is shifting away from content hosting and removal, and towards recommendat…

> ActivityPub? Who cares about what JSON schema gets adopted?

It's less the wire format (JSON-LD) and more the semantics (ActivityStreams) that are important, to be honest.

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#138

Cool idea, sure. Maybe they should have had the marketing team look at the banner image before going live. Definitely undermines the perceived legitimacy of the effort in my opinion: https://twitter.com/bluesky

My feeling is that they're hackers who are already working in dweb/crypto

Re: Twitter funding a team to develop an open standard for social media

#139
post #82

To those of you pushing for ActivityPub: Webber's trashed it (the initial author) and is working on a way to mitigate the problems of it by implementing incompatible changes, the biggest piece of software claiming to implement it doesn't even implement it (Mastodon), the only piece of software that stays semi-faithful is full of devs who hate it (Pleroma). AP is completely broken for anything but publicly-scoped cont…

Sure, Mastodon doesn't implement the full ActivityPub spec [0]. They're still very much behind the effort though, it seems [1] (or at least they were in 2018). I'm not a Mastodon developer, nor have I developed with it, but surely there are learnings there that could potentially be contributed back to the W3C to make ActivityPub better (including making it more rigorously spec'd). The people at the W3C are not gods -…

Sure, Mastodon doesn't implement the full ActivityPub spec [0]. They're still very much behind the effort though, it seems [1] (or at least they were in 2018).

Not only this, but they go against it in multiple places. How they've implemented 'summary' and the bizarre things they've done to create compatibility with Misskey (but not in an actually-compatible way, Misskey's had to patch their own solution every time) has made every implementation have to implement an against-spec trashfire.

I'm not a Mastodon developer, nor have I developed with it, but surely there are learnings there that could potentially be contributed back to the W3C to make ActivityPub better (including making it more rigorously spec'd).

Alternatively, the AP spec is fundamentally broken in many ways, and that effort would be better off going into a protocol like Secure Scuttlebutt (not a fan, but it's much better than AP) or Diaspora (also not a fan, but it's much better than AP).

The people at the W3C are not gods - they're human beings just like the rest of us. Why not get involved in the conversation there?

The only genuine reason I can think of to split away from the ActivityPub effort to build a completely different protocol would be if the W3C's working group on ActivityPub is filled with such toxic politics that it's impossible to make any progress on making the spec better. (That's been the only reason I could see in the past when I've been part of protocol standardization efforts).

Not only politics, but it's incredibly slow. Webber has written a post on how troublesome the standardization process was, though he doesn't go into just how bad it was:

https://dustycloud.org/blog/on-standards-divisions-collabora...

Without evidence of that, however, I'd say that it's far better for the community to get involved in making the existing spec better. Robust debate (supported by evidence, such as that which Mastodon's built up) is incredibly valuable to the community as a whole.

There are already existing specifications, none of them as bad as ActivityPub. I'm fully for going in one of those directions, but AP is more or less a failed experiment.

Also, it's incredibly valuable from a political decentralization perspective to have as neutral a party as possible facilitating the standardization efforts, to minimize the risk of Big Tech shaping standards in ways that would suit them financially (and potentially against the interests of the average internet user).

W3C is not neutral, and not only are they not neutral, but the RIAA and MPAA are people with enough sway to have messed up the entire web multiple times (see: making EME a standard).

A neutral party sounds great! The W3C should not get to be involved, however.

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