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So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

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Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling me. I've been into craft beer for around 8 years, a bit after IPAs really took off in the US. I have acid reflux, and nothing triggers it more consistently and quickly than having an IPA. It just tastes like straight up acid to me. I equate people who like really strong IPAs to people who are into extreme hot sauce just for the sake of injuring themselves with something that's overly hot. Is there real…

> Is there really any flavor to IPAs with IBUs that are through the roof? No, not at all. Yes, there is good, tasty flavor to hops, provided you're not on the sensitive side of the bitter tasting spectrum. The bitter flavor overwhelms everything for some, but not all. If you're curious, there are bitter tasting test strips like these which not everyone is sensitive to. https://www.amazon.com/Nasco-PTC-Paper-Strips-Vi…

> Yes, there is good, tasty flavor to hops, provided you're not on the sensitive side of the bitter tasting spectrum.

I'd also add "provided you didn't boil the shit out of them, destroying the essential oils and isomerizing the alpha acids". Generally speaking, a particular batch of hops can add either bitterness or flavor but not both. If you want both, you add multiple batches.

A little rundown of the chemicals in hops and how they affect the beer depending on how you add it.

Hops contain three things:

- Alpha acids. They're tasteless on their own, and when you boil them, they isomerize, and isomerized alpha acids taste bitter. All the bitterness in hoppy beers come from these.

- Beta acids. People don't talk about these much. They're generally associated with off flavors, and most cultivars try to minimize them.

- Essential oils. This is where the real flavors in hops come from. Different cultivars contain different essential oils that give off different flavors. European hops tend to have earthy, floral, and spicy flavors ("spicy" as in traditional European spices, e.g. allspice, not "spicy" as in chile peppers), and American hops lean towards pine and citrus flavors. Some newer American cultivars go past just "citrus" and into a wider variety of stone fruits; these tend to form the base of New England IPAs. Unfortunately, boiling the hops destroys much of the essential oils, so any hop you use for bittering will provide little flavor.

Different cultivars of hops provide these in different amounts. Hops that are high in alpha acids but low in essential oils are called "bittering hops" because all they're good for is adding them during the boil to add bitterness. Hops that are high in essential oils but low in alpha acids are called "aroma hops" because all they're good for is to add them later in the process to add aroma and flavor to the beer.

There are basically three points where you can add hops into the beer:

- At the beginning of the boil. This thoroughly isomerizes the alpha acids and destroys much of the essential oils, contributing bitterness but little flavor. If you want a bitter beer, throw a bunch of high-alpha hops in at this stage. If you don't like bitterness, just throw in enough hops to protect the beer from spoilage.

- Later in the boil. This contributes a small amount of bitterness and a decent amount of flavor. Unless the beer is _packed_ with hop flavor, you can expect much of the hop flavor to come from this stage.

- After the boil is over. This is called "dry-hopping". This contributes no bitterness whatsoever and adds a ton of flavor, provided you use hops that have a large amount of essential oils. Beers that have intense hop flavors make extensive use of dry-hopping. Extreme west-coast IPAs tend to make heavy use of both hopping during the boil and dry-hopping, thus providing strong bitterness and flavor. New England IPAs, on the other hand, rely almost entirely on dry-hopping to bring out every nuance of the essential oils, to the point where a new marketing term has been coined: "double dry-hopped", or DDH. It doesn't really mean anything, there's no official threshold for what counts as "double", but you can safely assume that any beer marketed as a DDHIPA is going to be packed with hop flavor thanks to extensive dry-hopping. While there are a few west coast DDHIPAs, most beers labelled as DDHIPA are New England-style, where dry-hopping is especially important. In those beers, the H does double duty and also stands for "hazy". Why? Because when you aggressively dry-hop a beer, hop particles will actually become suspended in the drink giving it a cloudy appearance. You can filter them out if you want to, but New England-style IPAs almost never do so because they've turned the haze into a selling point (west coast IPAs, on the other hand, almost always filter them), which is why most of us who drink them just call them "hazies".

tl;dr If you think you don't like hops because they're too bitter, go find something that's aggressively dry-hopped with very little hops being added during the boil. You'll find out that hops actually taste pretty good and that what you didn't like was just the effect of boiling them.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#132
post #104

I live in Seattle where the IPA thing is just out of hand. My uncharitable pet theory is this: A certain class of men (sometimes women, but it's almost always men) get interested in something and then desire to make it part of their identity. That in turn means they want to convey that they are more into it than other people. Their passion expresses itself as competition. Most people that aren't really into beer don'…

> My favorite Tweet ever was someone who described this process that dudes do where they show up, take over a hobby, and drive all the fun out (and thus women) as "MENTRIFICATION". It is my new favorite word. So you think that less women ride bicycles and drink beer than 20 years ago?

Definitely the opposite.

Just as OP complains about bros getting to into things like beer as their identity, maybe the fail to realize that other people make their identities about real or perceived social injustices and how awesome they are to bring them up a every chance maybe not realizing that's more annoying.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#133

I have a friend who dropped everything in his life to start homebrewing and trying to enter the brewing industry. He's broke and miserable and doesn't understand why the jobs are so bad. I'm trying to convince him that the fact that people are willing to give up everything to take one of these jobs is why you have to give up everything. It's ironic as well, because the types of jobs he is running away from (spreadshe…

Maybe he can use those skills to get into the industry...spreadsheets may be less boring when they pertain to your passion.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#135

I've done a bit of consulting work for breweries and beer bars over the last couple of decades, nothing in the brewing process directly (mostly bespoke hardware and software solutions), but have had a great view into craft brewing. it seems like there hasn't been any real technological progress in craft brewing since the 90's. in the 90's, there were unix based control systems, with X11 interfaces, for larger craft b…

I'd love to hear more about this. I've thought a lot about this space, given that the business side is what seems to trip a lot of these enterprises up. And the business is connected with trends, COGS, seasonality, etc., the same as others in the space. There just aren't targeted ways of tracking/measuring these specific to the beer industry.

The software isn't the issue. A lot of bars and restaurants go broke within the first year, and lack of financial literacy is a big part of that, but you're not going to fix financial literacy with a bunch of software and a dashboard or two. Ditto for breweries and practically any other type of business started by people with passion but no business sense.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#136

I've done a bit of consulting work for breweries and beer bars over the last couple of decades, nothing in the brewing process directly (mostly bespoke hardware and software solutions), but have had a great view into craft brewing. it seems like there hasn't been any real technological progress in craft brewing since the 90's. in the 90's, there were unix based control systems, with X11 interfaces, for larger craft b…

Craft breweries don't have a lot of money and spreadsheets are cheap and therefore hard to compete with.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#137
post #78

I live in Seattle where the IPA thing is just out of hand. My uncharitable pet theory is this: A certain class of men (sometimes women, but it's almost always men) get interested in something and then desire to make it part of their identity. That in turn means they want to convey that they are more into it than other people. Their passion expresses itself as competition. Most people that aren't really into beer don'…

It feels a little cynical. You can enjoy beer and music and stuff without getting into a dick measuring contest. If all they want to do is one-up you then they’re not your friend. Find someone who listens to you. If that’s their way of enjoying things, then what’s so bad about it? They presumably dislike a lot of the hobbies you enjoy, they’re not out there to ‘mentrify’ them. (Why this gendered insulting is okay whe…

Turning things into competitions often has extremely negative externalities. The desire to be the richest, or have the biggest house, or the fastest car, or drink the most alcohol, etc... destroys lives. And this kind of status scrambling is not exclusive to men.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#138
post #88

I live in Seattle where the IPA thing is just out of hand. My uncharitable pet theory is this: A certain class of men (sometimes women, but it's almost always men) get interested in something and then desire to make it part of their identity. That in turn means they want to convey that they are more into it than other people. Their passion expresses itself as competition. Most people that aren't really into beer don'…

Women don't listen to music because men shows up and liked music too much?

I think the poster is more saying men come in and make liking the music a competition, which from my experience is a very real thing. I have absolutely run into people the poster is describing, and unfortunately was friends with people like that for awhile. It wasn't "liking music too much"; they would act superior about music and tried to lay down what was "good" music to play/listen to. It is an incredibly narrow minded view and it is even worse when they are competitive about it.

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#139

I live in Seattle where the IPA thing is just out of hand. My uncharitable pet theory is this: A certain class of men (sometimes women, but it's almost always men) get interested in something and then desire to make it part of their identity. That in turn means they want to convey that they are more into it than other people. Their passion expresses itself as competition. Most people that aren't really into beer don'…

When exactly did dudes "show up" to "riding bicycles" and "drive all the fun out"?

Re: So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery (2014)

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an enthusiastic road cyclist I don't think there has ever been a time in modern history when the cohort of people who ride 10,000km+ a year for general conditioning/cardio/training, and spend $2,000+ on road bikes, wasn't gender ratio skewed by at least 85:15 towards men. It is kind of unfortunate because there should really be nothing gender specific about cycling.

The body-saddle interface is gender specific. That is a problem for a lot of potential riders.

If you're going to spend that much on a bike, then the saddle is really only there for test rides. You'll replace it with your preferred one as soon as you buy it.
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