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Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

reuters.com

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Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#131

Post by xuki »

ShorsHammer wrote: post #106
pirsquare wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singaporean here - I don't think they are faked. It's just that we don't have strong opposition party. Many opposition parties here spent majority of their time complaining every single decision the government makes instead of making actual contribution to the society.

Sometimes SNG expat here. Why exactly do you think that is? Surely there is enough highly talented, smart people to have a crack at a political office that's been held for decades and of course an enthusiastic young generation who have lived under this system perhaps interested in a change? It's a country with one of the highest average IQ's on Earth and I'm always intrigued by the statement "no viable opposition". T…

My theory is people who want to join politics, do it for power, for money, for status. Put yourself in their shoes, which party would you affiliate with to set yourself up? PAP also have an extensive network of grassroot organizations to recruit any young talents who want to join. It's very hard to change the status quo unless PAP leadership makes a series of catastrophic mistakes.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#132

Post by xuki »

sumedh wrote: post #125
xuki wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's certainly not faked. There is no viable oppositions, the reason for this is a whole different story. Many of my Singaporean friends would GLADLY vote for an opposition party to keep PAP in check but they simply don't match the quality of PAP's candidates.

> they simply don't match the quality of PAP's candidates. Is that by design?

I would say it's a positive feedback loop. PAP is the main party, so young talents are more likely to join, which in turn makes PAP stronger.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#133

Post by hopefulcynic »

Peckingjay wrote: post #66
ulfw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see people in the west often lauding Singapore for that and vilifying China if they do the same.

Most likely because Singapore is not also putting huge amount of people in detention camps and harvesting their organs. Maybe if they had the scale to do so they would, but that's not really the question when it comes to public opinion.

> Most likely because Singapore is not also putting huge amount of people in detention camps and harvesting their organs.

To be fair, the chinese call it de-radicalization/re-education centers, which they set up after a few extremist separatist attacks which killed hundreds of people. And as for the organs, much of the west ( especially in europe ) take people's organs without their explicit consent (it's called opt-out organ "donation".

> Maybe if they had the scale to do so they would, but that's not really the question when it comes to public opinion.

Nonsense. It's called political expediency and the trade war. A decade ago, when china was our "friend", we were talking about "chimerica" and praising their handling of muslim extremists in xinjiang and china's help with our war on "muslim terrorists". A decade later and we are in the midst of a trade war and the propaganda changes.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#134

Post by foldr »

flomble wrote: post #114
qwtel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody cares about freedom of the press because they are well paid and comfortable that's because freedom of press and similar rights are a uniquely western phenomenon that are --- despite what droves of its proponents will tell you --- derived from christian values that didn't and don't exist anywhere else. Many in the broader region don't care about freedom of press, while also being poorly paid and uncomfortable…

> freedom of press and similar rights are a uniquely western phenomenon that are ... derived from christian values This is incorrect. Europe is quite unique in that since the advent of Christianity there has always existed a church separate from the state acting as a counterbalance thereto, and offering an alternative foundation of moral authority. Despite this, brutal suppression of all dissent and criticism of the…

> They often couched their arguments in terms of Christian doctrine, but this is just the incidental result of the dominance of the Christian religion in society at that time.

I wouldn't say that it's entirely incidental. Christianity is compatible with individualism in a way that some other religions are not.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#135

Post by sethgecko »

mac01021 wrote: post #118
irjustin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

All the examples of safety that you provide describe my experience in the US too, FWIW.

“I don't think/worry about guns - ever.”

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#136

Post by fzeroracer »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #126
trickstra wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the consequences might be that if you say a lie about someone else, they will sue you for libel. And in an ideal world, the lie would be discovered and you'd lose that suit. So asking a user on facebook to remove a lie, then asking facebook to remove that lie, sounds like a fair thing to do in a "real" democracy. > Governments should not have the power to silence their critics I agree completely, but we are ta…

Wouldn't placing a notice on content deemed fake be more like what we do with slander/libel. Court reports create a record of the lie which aids the public in deciding who to deal with and creates an additional motivation not to lie. It also allows a person to disagree with the judgement. "This content has been determined to be fake: [evidence or link to evidence]" That would be my preference. So

As an example I assume you're familiar with the treatment family of Sandy Hook victims have gotten? Where they have to deal with constant harassment and threats from people that believe it is a hoax and those that encourage them?

If you were to slap a content disclaimer saying 'this content is fake', they would just use that as fuel and proof that the government doesn't want you to know the truth. The lie directly harms people by simply existing even if you add a disclaimer.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#137

Post by Meph504 »

diveanon wrote: post #53

Why am I not surprised that it is Singapore doing this. That country is an authoritarian nanny state disguised as Disney Land. I have visited many times and have lots of friends there. Nobody cares about freedom of the press because they are well paid and comfortable. They have truly figured out how to placate the masses.

>>"Nobody cares about freedom of the press because they are well paid and comfortable. They have truly figured out how to placate the masses."

Could this not equally be applied to America?

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#138

Post by xuki »

bkor wrote: post #120
irjustin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US expat living in SG, I would say yes. Singapore is the first place where I actually began to question whether democracy was the absolute way. Democracy was how I was raised. Overall, I still believe it is the way long term, but what can you do when you have a single, unified government that cares for its people is simply amazing. Safest in the world, hands down. This can be felt in every day life. I hold tabl…

> Safest in the world, hands down. Any figures to back that up? It's said that nothing gets stolen in Singapore, until you speak to Singaporeans. Bikes still get stolen for instance. The city seems super clean, but mainly because low paid workers clean the city really often. If a Singaporean visits another country you'll notice that they're used to the city being cleaned often, not so much that they're behaving diffe…

> Any figures to back that up?

A simple Google search will show you Singapore and Tokyo are regarded as the 2 safest cities on Earth, which one is first depends on which report you read.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#139

Post by onetimemanytime »

qeng-ho wrote: post #88

I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN. As with many places, the situation in my country is a bit more nuanced than a simple "the ruling party has ruled the country since 1965". Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety, and over here we definitely surrender more degrees of civil liberty for the safety and security of our streets. As anot…

>>I'm Singaporean, and completely not surprised to see this appear on HN....Civilisation is the surrender of varying degrees of civil liberty for security and safety

...We're just debating the word "varying" and might not agree with your conclusion.

Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law

#140

Post by archibaldJ »

bkor wrote: post #127
archibaldJ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Singapore for more than half of my life and met expats there from all walks of life. And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values, both in terms of the cultures and the social-political aspects of many things (other than weed and cocaine, etc; but you can certainly get your hand on some lsd if you know the right contacts). Anyway the point is that Singapore is very westerni…

> And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values [..] > I've not known a self-declared Left that could stand staying in Singapore for more than a week Weird combination of statements. It gives the impression (though you probably mean something different that anyone not liking it is 1) "left" 2) not part of Western values Left vs right is pretty useless distinction anyway. Someone who is co…

Yeah I guess I had mistakenly used left vs right as a synonym for the more liberal-ish vs the more conservative-ish and that is indeed probably an oversimplification.

Anyway I was talking more about the "liveable" aspects of Singapore. Maybe not a week as a tourist but say living longer than a month there. The night life is pretty boring, the underground scene had dissipated in the 2000s and the art scene is not at all vibrant (though things are gradually improving). I would say it doesn't enjoy lots of things liberal-ish cities (like Berlin, NY, etc) enjoy. But there is stability and comfort. It's just that people that is more liberal-ish would ultimately leave the country and live overseas, or if circumstances allow they would start an NGO or something and try to improve things to have more freedom of expressions, more social acceptance for LGBT, etc. But ultimately it is a very conservative place with things like homophobia and an embedded racism. And that's the point I'm trying to make.

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