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Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

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Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#131

Post by SahAssar »

_bxg1 wrote: post #79
simlevesque wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usurped their idea. Monaco was a thing way before Atom was. It was publicly released after Atom but it was already in some of Microsoft's websites.

That's interesting to know; perhaps it was just the right time for independent discovery. Still, a web-based code editor on its own has independent utility from an IDE. I'm not sure they would've taken the plunge into a full-on Electron IDE without Atom first showing that there was demand for one.

I don't think Atom was first with that idea, for example Brackets was in development before Atoms first release.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#132

Post by WorldMaker »

mrec wrote: post #120
fooey wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say Microsoft's dev tools have always been best in the business, but only in their ecosystem and only for their ecosystem. A big part of the reason I still go out of my way to use MS SQL is how good SQL Studio is. The revolution with VSCode is the openness, not the quality.

Out of interest, have you ever used Jetbrains products like IntelliJ IDEA and friends? Even back when I was writing C#, years ago, Visual Studio was way less productive without their ReSharper plugin.

I'm sure it's a "too each their own" feeling.

Personally, I've never seen Visual Studio so unproductive as with ReSharper installed. The number of colleagues over the years I've had to work to convince them to remove or disable ReSharper to get any work done on projects has been too many. ("I hate Visual Studio because it is too slow." "Do you have ReSharper installed? What happens when you disable it?" "Wow, Visual Studio is really fast now." Surprise.) I've had employers install it by default, I didn't like using it, and I made sure that my employer wasn't paying for a license directly for me when I uninstalled it.

If Android Studio is any indication, I don't see what the fuss is about IntelliJ either. But some of that is certainly just lack of familiarity because I only open up Android Studio when I have to.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#133

Post by WorldMaker »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #81
fooey wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say Microsoft's dev tools have always been best in the business, but only in their ecosystem and only for their ecosystem. A big part of the reason I still go out of my way to use MS SQL is how good SQL Studio is. The revolution with VSCode is the openness, not the quality.

I’ve been happy doing most tasks in MySQL Workbench that I can do with SSMS. Oddly, when using SQL Azure instead of on-prem SQL Server, SSMS doesn’t let you use its friendly hand-holding dialogs but instead drops you into a new editor document with cryptic syntax. The only excuse I can think of is that the user-friendly popups are single-threaded and block window-messages on network IO and would have a very poor UX d…

It does sound like SQL Server and SSMS have some very interesting choices in remoting models, based on what I've read of Azure Data Studio's development.

Azure Data Studio's the VS Code-based SSMS-like tool focused on Azure SQL and Cosmos DB. At one point the development blog was talking about it as if Azure Data Studio might some day be the eventual replacement for even SSMS itself, but they seem to have walked that back, at least in part due to how many crazy things SSMS does and how SSMS is one of those tools that certain types of users would possibly go into some sort of costly meltdown if their cheese moved.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#134

Post by WorldMaker »

_bxg1 wrote: post #79
simlevesque wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usurped their idea. Monaco was a thing way before Atom was. It was publicly released after Atom but it was already in some of Microsoft's websites.

That's interesting to know; perhaps it was just the right time for independent discovery. Still, a web-based code editor on its own has independent utility from an IDE. I'm not sure they would've taken the plunge into a full-on Electron IDE without Atom first showing that there was demand for one.

Monaco was already embedded in the IE 10+ Dev Tools before Atom, and Browser Dev Tools are IDEs in almost every respect other than being bundled independently from a Browser, and even that has changed in some recent respects (you can run Chromium's Dev Tools as an independent app).

(In an interesting full circle, the Elements for Edge plugin to VS Code makes VS Code a full DOM browser for Chromium-based Edge.)

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#135

Post by flyingswift »

Aqueous wrote: post #37
flyingswift wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: Work at Facebook Not really sure what you are implying with the 'Big Brother' comment. The remote development servers are only used for writing/debugging code and not for other daily tasks. Even if they are tracking what tools/functions I am using on the server, what does that matter? Personally, I have found remote development awesome because it enables engineers to start contributing to a huge product i…

If you’re using a React pipeline on the remote server, how quickly does the page refresh occur? I do remote VM development where I work and a major pain point for me is how long it takes to refresh a page that I’m working on.

You navigate to the remote server in your browser to test your changes. You just need to save and refresh the page and the updated code is magically deployed to the page.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#136

Post by rubber_duck »

carty76ers wrote: post #72
rubber_duck wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron is not the browser - it's node.js + HTML DOM - I get what you are trying to say but being electron based doesn't really buy you anything in the scenarios you listed, native UI IDEs can and do use SSH filesystem and language servers in a same way VS code does (for example both those features exist in visual studio proper, and work even more reliably imo)

Node.js runs on V8, so if you add the DOM and HTML... you have, essentially a browser.

That doesn't really buy you anything distributed over a native UI + IO framework.

You could use the DOM based text editor (I think the VS code one is called Monaco ?) to build a cloud IDE (I've seen a few instances of this) but VS code has nothing specifically suitable for this over standard IDEs.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#137

Post by imtringued »

bitwize wrote: post #124
MapleWalnut wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the _default_, as they say in the article: > There is no mandated development environment. Some developers use vim. Some use Emacs. And even more engineers use our internal, unified development environment called Nuclide.

"Default" readily morphs into "only supported". Into "if you use something else and complain to IT when it breaks, IT addresses the issue by replying 'try using an editor from this century'."

When everyone uses a different editor then no one gets support.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#138

Post by Shish2k »

m0zg wrote: post #60

So after reading the article, by "partner" they just mean they replaced their internal thing with VS Code? Wow, what a monumental achievement!

> by "partner" they just mean they replaced their internal thing with VS Code? Wow

Incorrect - they built their own remote-editing solution (similar to vscode's built-in edit-over-ssh, but with a load more features), and have been working with Microsoft to get those features upstream.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#139

Post by Shish2k »

p1esk wrote: post #130
m0zg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Google you run it on Borg. At companies which have non-trivial on-prem compute you'll probably find k8s being used for cluster management nowadays, same idea. Without cluster management you'll have to copy it to the remote machine (and set up deps there)

Ok, so it seems like Pycharm is still the only tool which can do that

... you're using pycharm as a cluster management tool? I'm not sure if I'm impressed or horrified :P

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#140

Post by Shish2k »

bitwize wrote: post #124
MapleWalnut wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the _default_, as they say in the article: > There is no mandated development environment. Some developers use vim. Some use Emacs. And even more engineers use our internal, unified development environment called Nuclide.

"Default" readily morphs into "only supported". Into "if you use something else and complain to IT when it breaks, IT addresses the issue by replying 'try using an editor from this century'."

To my knowledge the "default" editor has changed ~3 times in the past 5 years (fbide, atom, vscode) - and yet I've been using vim this whole time with no problems, and never had anybody suggest that I stop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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