Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The importance of decentralisation

ungleich.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–137 of 137 posts

Re: The importance of decentralisation

#131

Post by carapace »

mistermann wrote: post #110
carapace wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The dangerous part imho when it comes to a geopolitical application is, while most of us can recognize the complexities and tradeoffs in a computer system, at least when they're pointed out to us, very few seem to be able to see similar complexities in geopolitics (a massively more complex system), even when it's pointed out. It's as if we've developed an intuition that passionately rejects the very suggestion, a b…

> Well, one of the fascinating things that anthropologists point out is that every society succeeds by-and-large in getting the children to behave like (that society's version of) adults. In other words, culture is somehow stable even though it gets renewed from generation to generation. So we are programmed in a way, and for that to work as well as it does, parts of the program have to remain stable, and that implie…

Cheers, well met. :)

Re: The importance of decentralisation

#132

Post by brokenmachine »

jasode wrote: post #16

It's sort of an ongoing hobby of mine to study the forces of decentralization vs centralization. This article about decentralization does what many other evangelism articles do: talk about the ideals and benefits . However, I believed what's rarely discussed but more important is the economic forces that prevent decentralization from fulfilling the idealists' vision. Yes, decentralization will be in effect for niche…

There are very interesting ways around this, eg with some decentralized architecture supporting coins to pay hosters to host people's data, eg Axiom https://axiom.org/

There's no reason github couldn't exist in a truly decentralized environment where people retain ownership of their data, and also retaining its tiered payment structure.

It's just a matter of market forces giving them an incentive to move in such a direction.

I believe most people would choose to retain ownership of their data if they could, as long as it's free and zero effort.

Re: The importance of decentralisation

#133

Post by brokenmachine »

aalleavitch wrote: post #104
VintageVibes wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of property is highly important in terms of giving us a framework by which we can resolve conflicts over who has legitimate use or possession of things. Without the idea of property, you devolve into a might makes right scenario where the strong or sneaky can steal from anyone without recourse. That doesn't sounds like a society anyone would feel motivated or happy living in. Why try when someone can just…

> Where does my use or possession end? For example, I trade two sheep for a bicycle which I need for transportation to get to my job. Can someone come along and take my bicycle any time I'm not using it? If so, how is this theft justified? You either work out an agreement with the people who might take it that a bicycle be available for you after work or you just go and find another bicycle. It's funny you say this b…

> If we structured society such that the accumulation of material wealth was infeasible, there would be far less need to worry about people going around and taking things they didn't legitimately need.

Is there anything to stop people from just moving into and taking over my house when I go out for the day?

Also, I like having a car set up exactly how I like it, with music I like, the mirrors where I left them, and also with a few things in it that I might need even rarely.

Call me selfish but I don't want to deal with a dirty public car that may or may not be available when I want it. All other public things are dirty and unpleasant, I don't see why shared cars or bicycles would be any different.

Re: The importance of decentralisation

#134

Post by mc3 »

nindwen wrote: post #26
jasode wrote: post #16

It's sort of an ongoing hobby of mine to study the forces of decentralization vs centralization. This article about decentralization does what many other evangelism articles do: talk about the ideals and benefits . However, I believed what's rarely discussed but more important is the economic forces that prevent decentralization from fulfilling the idealists' vision. Yes, decentralization will be in effect for niche…

While decentralized protocols don't entirely prevent centralization, they're still better than if the protocol was centralized. While Facebook and Google exist, we can still make websites. While most people use Gmail, we can still run our own mail servers. Even if 90% of users use the centralized service, the protocol being open gives enormous value to the remaining 10%. And as long as the 10% keep the protocol open,…

Dropping into the conversation late, to say that this is right - but - the danger is that Google controls the defacto browser and defacto web standards as well as search, and yes a large chunk of email, the biggest video hosting service and mobile operating system! So in reality I think the open standards will erode in practical terms to be Google standards over time, unless something is actively done to prevent that.

Re: The importance of decentralisation

#135

Post by barberousse »

int_19h wrote: post #115
javajosh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>wholly artificial legal concept of property Property is an informational concept more than a legal one. The concept of "mine" is present at a very young age, and clearly present in various animal groups. The data-structure is a simple association of objects with an owner, and for the substrate animals use only their brains, but humans use paper and, increasingly, bits. Banks and local government agencies keep the mo…

The "natural" concept of property is much more narrow than our abstract notions. Animals, and human societies before they develop the abstract property theory, generally define property through possession or use - your house is yours because you live in it, that sort of thing. You can't establish an association simply by saying, "this is mine". This puts a natural limit on how much property can be accumulated. Once y…

"But do you have a flag?"

Re: The importance of decentralisation

#136

Post by shuriky »

olah_1 wrote: post #51
nebulon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to selfhost many of those apps, we have built a tool (Cloudron) to take away most of the deployment hassle for many of those apps mentioned in the link. Also to work around the provider lock-in with ipv4 addresses while hosting from your home or on-premise we have a built-in dynamic DNS feature https://cloudron.io/documentation/networking/#dynamic-dns So in the end it doesn't matter if you change ISP or i…

Cloudron is missing apps for most use cases I actually care about. Can you add a google photos type app? Maybe Piwigo (it has a good mobile app) or OwnPhotos[1] (it has face/object recognition). Lychee doesn't have a mobile app or face/object recognition. Can you add some communication apps like Matrix Synapse or Ejabberd? Mattermost is walled off from the outside world. Can you add some social apps like Pleroma or M…

Well, Cloudron provides apps for most use cases most people need. So the fact that you need some obscure apps doesn't invalidate Cloudron as a great solution. I've been using it for a long time and love what it has to offer. Plus the devs are great and keep working on making it better.
Post reply on HN