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Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

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Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#131

Post by notfromhere »

semiotagonal wrote: post #99
notfromhere wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks on the trading side definitely don't. Folks on the PE side definitely do, especially the decisionmakers

Trading seems to have people from a very wide variety of backgrounds and capabilities. I think it's the result of random events being the most significant filtering mechanism. Anyone can get burned on a trade at any time, so staying in the game doesn't really depend on anyone's qualifications or abilities.

Feel like for trading you either have it or don't, and no pedigree will save you on a bad trade.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#133

Post by airstrike »

iamasoftwaredev wrote: post #120
airstrike wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world. I haven't seen much evidence to the contrary, either. All I see is anecdotes from both sides, so I'll give MBAs the benefit of the doubt. Speaking for myself, I am an entirely different person after completing my MBA. I've become an analytical thinker to a fault and maintain my soft skills. Learned a metric shit ton of…

> so I'll give MBAs the benefit of the doubt Why, that seems like a rather silly thing to give the benefit of the doubt on. Hiring someone into a high responsibility role based on education rather than experience and proven ability. I don't see why you would do that... > I am an entirely different person after completing my MBA ah.

Dude. Honestly feels like you're being purposefully hard to engage with for the sake of pushing your agenda. It's tiring, really.

> Why, that seems like a rather silly thing to give the benefit of the doubt on. Hiring someone into a high responsibility role based on education rather than experience and proven ability. I don't see why you would do that...

Who said they are hired on education _rather than_ experience and proven ability? It's not like MBAs are 18-year-olds with no experience. As I've said elsewhere, you need to have at least 3-5 years of _great_ work experience to land a spot at top MBAs. I was promoted every year for 3 years in a row in one of my homecountry's top 5 largest firms and was about to be promoted to manager when I went to my MBA. The same is true of a lot of MBA graduates. And those who were not managers in the traditional sense displayed their leadership abilities elsewhere, such as the many veterans that join MBA programs.

> ah.

Great ad hominem. Go read up on HN's guidelines, please: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#134

Post by airstrike »

headmelted wrote: post #121
airstrike wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> little to no empirical evidence that it prepares students for business success in the real world. I haven't seen much evidence to the contrary, either. All I see is anecdotes from both sides, so I'll give MBAs the benefit of the doubt. Speaking for myself, I am an entirely different person after completing my MBA. I've become an analytical thinker to a fault and maintain my soft skills. Learned a metric shit ton of…

"Shitty people exist everywhere. You don't have the counterfactual to know if those bosses would be even worse without an MBA" Not at all what I was saying, but since you brought it up: MBA or not, I'd expect the outcome of someone with zero real-world experience being elevated to a position of making executive decisions would be universally shite. Yes, it's entirely to do with HR processes, but nonetheless the reaso…

> Not at all what I was saying, but since you brought it up: MBA or not, I'd expect the outcome of someone with zero real-world experience being elevated to a position of making executive decisions would be universally shite.

Where do you get the notion that MBAs have zero real world experience? That is factually incorrect.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#135

Post by ucha »

It seems that almost all the comments are about the downfall of MBAs.

The actual article - not the title - says applications rose in Europe, China and quite dramatically in Canada. If applications rise by 9% in Canada while they decrease by 9% in the US, it's quite a good argument for the thesis of the author which is that immigration restrictions are responsible.

It used to be easy to get an MBA in the US then get a job as a foreigner. I have a friend who got a Masters in the US from an elite uni, worked in New York for 3 years, applied and lost thrice the H1-B lottery to later move to London. Many Indian and Chinese nationals leave for Canada instead of waiting more than a decade to get a Green Card. Getting an education in the US with the intention to access its job market is less attractive now.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#136

Post by airstrike »

semiotagonal wrote: post #99
notfromhere wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks on the trading side definitely don't. Folks on the PE side definitely do, especially the decisionmakers

Trading seems to have people from a very wide variety of backgrounds and capabilities. I think it's the result of random events being the most significant filtering mechanism. Anyone can get burned on a trade at any time, so staying in the game doesn't really depend on anyone's qualifications or abilities.

And, if anything, people from less secure socioeconomic backgrounds may feel they stand to lose less by pursuing a riskier career path (and I mean "risk" in the real sense of a broader range of outcomes) than, say, PE or Corporate Law, so they are a larger share of S&T

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#137

Post by airstrike »

ohbleek wrote: post #126
airstrike wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us weren't. You claimed MBAs are exclusively for rich kids. I provided data to refute that baseless claim. The point on how many foreigners there were is just a freebie. I don't know about Harvard MBA students, I didn't go there. But you can go ahead and google each school's class profile. Maybe that info is out there.

That was not data, that was a guess about your class.

It wasn't a guess. It is real world data based on the class profile that, as I mentioned, is publicly available. I just don't want to dox myself.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#138

Post by airstrike »

ethbro wrote: post #107
clairity wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The rise of the MBA has seen the downfall of quality." specious and unsupported statement. what "quality" are you talking about? what "downfall" has there been? when, how and why did "it" rise in the first place? you're making a fundamental attribution error (a topic taught in an MBA program, no less) by hinting at structural issues that are much wider and far-reaching than a simple graduate degree. make a reasone…

The reorientation of companies, driven by MBA conventional wisdom, into shareholder-centric, stock-price optimizing machines has come at the detriment of building long term value and delivering better products to customers. Rebuttal? And let's center our conversation on the average MBA graduate. I'm sure there are schools with different approaches, but no true Scotsman doesn't seem like it would be productive.

> has come at the detriment of building long term value and delivering better products to customers.

Sent from my iPhone

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#139

Post by solatic »

I'm about to start a non-US MBA with an entrepreneurship/startup focus, night school so that I can keep working and earning during the degree. Total cost for me out of pocket, for two years of tuition, after various state (non-employer) benefits, is roughly $3,500. Full cost for two years is a tad under $20,000. I have the time, I'll pick up the networking and the skills, I can pay for it out of pocket and without debt, so for that price - why not?

If I was faced with a six-figure price tag, I'd self-educate. The Internet is a powerful resource. "Networking" isn't worth the cost of tuition when people will come banging down your door to work with you after you've developed a strong and proven track record for results.

Re: Elite MBA Programs Report Steep Drop in Applications

#140

Post by rajacombinator »

I used to think lawyers were the class of people most damaging to society. (As the political class.) Now after some recent up close and personal exposure to MBAs, I’m not so sure. It’s a shame because it’s a degree that attracts a lot of smart people due to its market value...
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