Live data from Hacker News

The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

wsj.com

131–140 of 146 posts

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#131

China is offended by him offering an opinion on something. So, that makes them right? I'm offended by his backpedaling. That makes me right, right? China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants.

>China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants 1.4 billion of those people are Chinese, and they can get outaged over whatever ridiculous shit they want.

I have often wondered about the fact that 'outrage' and 'outage' are only off by one letter.

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a heads up, this statement is often used as an anti-Semitic canard. You obviously didn’t mean it in that context, but you may want to use that quotation with caution.

Can you explain a little context behind this? I am not Jewish so I am just purely curious as to why it would be anti-Semitic.

There's some disagreement over who originally made up the quote, but it may have been a neo-Nazi named Kevin Strom.

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how many Chinese people have you ever talked to before you say "most of them are brainwashed"? If more than 1 billion people are brainwashed in the era of Internet, either 1. it is a huge success of Chinese government or 2. it's not the truth. As we all know, VPN is very popular in China. It's just an easy job to access information out of Great Fire Wall. thinking critically, could you be "brainwashed" by some degree…

vPN is very popular in China? In what range? Thousands of users? Hundreds of thousands? Dozens of millions? Hundreds of millions? The scale matters completely for the discussion. And brainwashing does not start with the internet. education is a major source of brainwashing and do not discount mass media either which still shapes culture even in hyper connected countries like the US. Brainwashing works, its not even a…

if you don't know or doubt how popular VPN is used in China, it indicates that you know little about modern China. everyone I know uses VPN or know how to use VPN if they need. as for exact scale, I'd leave that to you. you could easily figure that out as there are ton of such information online.

If brainwashing really worked greatly like you said, Soviet Union would still exist now. It was their people who overthrew Soviet Union.

exactly because of China going through the disaster like Cultural Revolution, many people just don't believe these propaganda anymore.

my point was not there is no brainwash. it's everywhere including China and US. my point was in the era of Internet and the popular use of VPN in China, i don't think the brainwash really works greatly like you'd think.

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests on China official TV daily when it was broadcast until the end of May 1989. I was a teenager at that time. we talked about it at school. we talked about at home. we talked about it heavily at college. we just didn't talk much about it publicly. nobody got arrested by simply talking about it, which may not be like what you might be thinking. when I was young, there was no G…

> we just didn't talk much about it publicly "just"? Not being able to say something in public is like not being able to say it at all. What you just talk about with your friends or family is as relevant to the public sphere as your private thoughts are.

"Not being able to say something in public is like not being able to say it at all."

buddy, being so cynical is not really helpful for any constructive discussion. not mention that I was telling a fact not argument.

even in many democratic countries, in terms of political correctness, you don't want to talk about some subjects in public. Does it really mean not being able to say it at all?

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#135
post #58

China is offended by him offering an opinion on something. So, that makes them right? I'm offended by his backpedaling. That makes me right, right? China really needs to get a grip and understand that with seven billion people in the world, not everyone is going to agree with everything it wants.

If American are offended by the violation of free speech, they should boycott NBA like the Chinese do.

Already done.

Except, I'm just a one person boycott, since I don't have to agree with what my government tells me.

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#136
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more representing the power of social media mob justice than what "China" wants. It's really not that different from how the left or the right boycott a business after any other tweet

I disagree. This is exactly what the Chinese government wants. They're able to have this outsized influence on American companies because they've heavily invested in them. Going against the Chinese government means risking a significant piece of your business for many companies - it isn't about the "social media mob" at all.

For reference: Force U.S. airlines remove Taiwan: https://time.com/5348666/airlines-websites-taiwan-china/

Hide Taiwan emoji flag in Hong Kong: https://blog.emojipedia.org/apple-hides-taiwan-flag-in-hong-...

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#137
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“China doesn’t have that kind of influence in our country”. Yet here we are discussing them.

What does China produce that we have fans for? I don't see many cultural exports from them in America.

Instead wasting time to build culture influence. They simply bought companies from western and become rule maker.

For example, Tencent already bought two popular esport game companies from U.S.(riot game /epic game). Not only for making money, also for ruling esport world.

https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years ago would have been an opportune time, that no one is able to refuse their censorship seems like reasonable proof that they've become too powerful to do anything about.

so we roll over and just take it?

That seems like one of many plausibly optimal approaches, but no one is able to see the future.

The time for such conversations is long past, and it certainly wasn't me assuring people that this massive experiment will undoubtedly work out just fine.

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we just didn't talk much about it publicly "just"? Not being able to say something in public is like not being able to say it at all. What you just talk about with your friends or family is as relevant to the public sphere as your private thoughts are.

"Not being able to say something in public is like not being able to say it at all." buddy, being so cynical is not really helpful for any constructive discussion. not mention that I was telling a fact not argument. even in many democratic countries, in terms of political correctness, you don't want to talk about some subjects in public. Does it really mean not being able to say it at all?

> even in many democratic countries, in terms of political correctness, you don't want to talk about some subjects in public.

Yes, and to the degree that happens, things disappear from the public sphere.

I'm German, and the Nazis are not a happy subject one wants to talk about, but being forbidden from talking about that would be so much worse. And while not everybody "wants to hear about it", there is no difference between "in public" or "in private" really, it what matters more who you talk to, or who overhears it. Neo-Nazis don't want to hear about the Holocaust, Antifa has no problem with it, for example.

The way Tiananmen is taboo in public discussion in China is an entirely different thing I would say, simply because it mainly comes from the CCP and repression, rather than the opinions of people. People may say they "don't feel the need" to talk about it, but if someone talked about it in public and wouldn't stop, they would be stopped, and people know that.

> Does it really mean not being able to say it at all?

Yes, for all practical purposes in context of what we're talking about. Maybe this will help explain:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arendt/#CitPubSph

> For Arendt the public sphere comprises two distinct but interrelated dimensions. The first is the space of appearance, a space of political freedom and equality which comes into being whenever citizens act in concert through the medium of speech and persuasion. The second is the common world, a shared and public world of human artifacts, institutions and settings which separates us from nature and which provides a relatively permanent and durable context for our activities. Both dimensions are essential to the practice of citizenship, the former providing the spaces where it can flourish, the latter providing the stable background from which public spaces of action and deliberation can arise. For Arendt the reactivation of citizenship in the modern world depends upon both the recovery of a common, shared world and the creation of numerous spaces of appearance in which individuals can disclose their identities and establish relations of reciprocity and solidarity.

In China one might even say the CCP allows criticism, but tries to keep that public sphere non-existent, regardless of whether it is supportive or critical: https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-Censorship-China-...

But I agree that this also is a problem in the West, the public sphere isn't exactly healthy, though at least it still exists. A quote by Arendt I posted recently also applies here, both to China and the West: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21175000

And from "Origins of Totalitarianism":

> The deprivation of humans of their rights, the killing of the juridical person in them is just a precondition of their being totally controlled, for which even voluntary agreement is a hindrance.

What is voluntary can change, and this is not permitted with some things (or under totalitarianism, a lot of things, until history gets rewritten and then it's not permitted to not change them).

People in the West do that all the time, too: pretend like "that's just how the world is" and they are adapting to it, rather than, as they say that, acting in a way which, together with millions who act similarly, creates and continues the situation they claim to simply adapt to. We don't fear the secret police, we just don't want to be frowned on, we just don't want to lose sleep or our appetite. That's much worse, but two wrongs still don't make a right.

I don't think the CCP is "the villain" and the rest of the world free and saintly, at all, it's just that I can't make an exception just for the CCP and pretend 2+2 is 5 in their case. So while I mean all my "cynical" (I would call it blunt) words, don't take them as just aimed at the CCP (and people who may think they might not be sooo bad etc.)

Re: The NBA Feels a Backlash in China After a Tweet Supporting Hong Kong

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vPN is very popular in China? In what range? Thousands of users? Hundreds of thousands? Dozens of millions? Hundreds of millions? The scale matters completely for the discussion. And brainwashing does not start with the internet. education is a major source of brainwashing and do not discount mass media either which still shapes culture even in hyper connected countries like the US. Brainwashing works, its not even a…

if you don't know or doubt how popular VPN is used in China, it indicates that you know little about modern China. everyone I know uses VPN or know how to use VPN if they need. as for exact scale, I'd leave that to you. you could easily figure that out as there are ton of such information online. If brainwashing really worked greatly like you said, Soviet Union would still exist now. It was their people who overthrew…

So how many millions of VPN users please?
Post reply on HN