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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#131
post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#132
post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

As a counterpoint, in Amsterdam the municipality has hundreds of charging stations all around the city. https://www.amsterdam.nl/en/traffic-transport/map-charging-s...

I've just moved to the Netherlands, and one of the first things I noticed is that you can find charging stations everywhere around Rotterdam too.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#133
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an African I really want an electric car that just has a speedometer, airbags, range meter and nothing else. I can do without air condition, outside temperature sensor ... We already struggling to fix the modern petrol and diesel cars full of electronics.

get the honda e: https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html tested it and it's truly a marvel.

I didn't know this existed - specs look interesting! ...But god, it looks so goofy for no reason whatsoever. The trend of intentionally unconventional-looking EVs continues to baffle me. It's possible to stand out while not looking dumpy/derpy.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#134
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 40% coal provided electricity, electric cars are already way less poluting than combustion engines. Actually even just being powered by an efficient diesel generator would put them on a roughly equal level. So only 40% coal is already a benefit. But of course, we should get rid of our coal plants as quickly as possible. That is the one rather low hanging fruit in reducing the carbon footprint. And I think the 2038…

Why would a diesel generator put them on equal levels? Even if you assume that an electric engine has 100% efficiency, you lose energy because * per amount of energy, batteries are heavier than gasoline tanks so accelerating needs more energy * charging batteries is not 100% efficient Is that all balanced by the generator operating at optimal conditions?

You burn a litre of oil fractions per litre of petrol/diesel output at the refinery. Something noone is eager to count in their efficiency comparison.

Also, all electric vehicles use regenerative braking, recapturing the kinetic energy that is lost with ICEs.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#135
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, around 40% of the electricity in Germany was generated from coal in 2018, but in january 2019, a group of federal and state leaders as well as industry representatives, environmentalists, and scientists made an agreement to close all 84 coal plants in the country by 2038.[1] Just as in many other parts of the world, expanding electrical consumption through electric vehicles does not make sense if we also…

In the short term, it does absolutely make sense to use electric vehicles. The critical goal is to further develop electric cars so they become the obvious choice for consumers. As we go from a few million EVs to tens of millions, it is of course important to move towards cleaner electricity.

> The critical goal is to further develop electric cars so they become the obvious choice for consumers.

should be

The critical goal is to further reduce CO2 in the atmosphere.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#136
post #18

I live in an apartment complex in Berlin. We have a parking garage that belongs to the complex. Unfortunately the housing company does not allow installation of a wallbox in the garage, even if I paid for it myself. The housing company is owned by the municipality. Large-scale adoption of electric cars is unrealistic when the majority of people have nowhere to charge it.

I was told I couldn't use the 110 volt plug in my parking spot in my condo building. I live in a city with hydro electric that is very environmentally conscious. I emailed the property manager that the local newspaper would probably be interested in the story of them blocking the adoption of clean cars, they quickly changed their tune and now I plug my Tesla in and pay the strata council $30 / month. You might be able to try something similar, or find a government elected official in your area who is pro environment to go to bat for you.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#137
post #20

As someone who lived in Amsterdam for one year (I'm originally from Israel) I was extremely impressed by how the government create a solid infrastructure for electric car owners to charge their car batteries.

That sounds a bit like they are solving rich people's problems

The new car of today is tomorrow's used car.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#138
post #85
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all countries, the Netherlands would have an especially large incentive to combat climate change, as large parts are already below the sea level. Also pollution and noise due to car usage, are everyones problems. The government isn't giving electric cars away, but providing infrastructure seems like a good idea to me, as this is more difficult to provide as an individual. Also, electric cars are not limited to "th…

It is absolutely great to reduce car usage. Amsterdam is already making it very hard to own a car. But encouraging EVs actually increases car usage, EV or not. There s the question of industry standards, whether the technologies of today are final, and whether the electricity network can accomodate the massive needs for electric power. This might be premature optimization. And yeah, non-toy EVs are still a luxury ite…

There's just the one place 6-7m below sea level really. If I recall correctly the current infrastructure is capable of protecting against sea levels 6 meters above average, but that includes tides and storms. A 2m rise in sea levels could mean that all parts of the defence need to be raised a further 2m, and some of the natural defences (dunes etc.) might no longer be adequate.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#139

at my (dutch) company, a relatively large number of employees is able to get this car under the company lease program. which means they don't cost a thing, except for the increase in income tax which is much lower for electric cars. even people who do not care about environmental things at all get it because it's fast, its sleek and its easy to operate.

> even people who do not care about environmental things at all get it because it's fast, its sleek and its easy to operate.

This is the stated goal of Tesla. Make people buy electric cars because they're better, not because of the environment. Then the environmental stuff will follow but you can never convince the general population to give up comfort for the greater good.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#140
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you add load to a grid that's in the process of decarbonizing, you need to look at the marginal impact. Taking the average energy mix is bad math, because you're delaying the shutdown of the dirtiest sources. This can get more complicated if you have excess renewable energy generation at times, where the use is essentially free. Not to mention demand dispatch to smooth intermittent renewables. I'm a big EV fan,…

The mix is the right math. After all, you cannot say, which electric device uses which power source. Or suddenly it might be your TV running on pure coal energy - this does not make much sense. The best approximation is, that you apply the average energy mix. Which might be even too pessimistic, as not only a lot of people do power their electric cars with their own solar energy but also it is easy to charge your ele…

The question that needs to be answered is, what is the marginal impact of taking an ICE off the road and replacing it with a BEV?

Using the current mix of renewables is a form of double counting. No more renewable energy is being fed in to the grid, however more is coming from dirty sources.

Reductio ad absurdum, what happens if all of Germany's cars were BEV overnight? I've seen estimates that the load on the grid would be increased by 20%. Surely you'd agree that using the current mix of renewables would no longer make sense calculating their environmental impact. So why does that change at the margins?

The answer is that it doesn't. The math is the same. With the exceptions we've both pointed out.

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