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Cryptocurrency Startup School

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Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#131

Post by arcticbull »

tofurocks wrote: post #115
arcticbull wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market cap is not worth for a currency. There’s incredibly limited liquidity in the market relative to the market cap, and even the ETF trying to list recently showed 95% of all volume in the crypto space was fake. Try and pull a few million dollars worth out and watch what happens. It did just plunge 33% on some small withdrawals, what exactly are you waiting for?

Selling a few million dollars worth of bitcoin would only slip the market a couple of dollars if at all. Go look at bitmex or bitfinex's order books - they have plenty of liquidity.

95% of that volume is fake [1] especially on bitfinex haha, they’re the scammiest. When they launched they were just importing order books from other exchanges to make it look like they had volume, and they launched Tether when they lost banking which also lost banking and had hundreds of millions seized for money laundering. Bitfinex is the biggest scam in the space and that’s saying a lot.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2019/03/22/95-of-repor...

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#132

Post by _7fvc »

buboard wrote: post #129
_7fvc wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pay people with bitcoin. I don't get paid in bitcoin. How do I pay people with bitcoin? :) I think regulation concern is overrated in crypto, at least, with Bitcoin. Crypto complaint about regulation is mainly rooted in libertarian politics. If you are a cryptocurrency and you want to interface with fiat currencies, you need to comply with fiat regulation. KYC is painful but it is necessary. It even helps reduce fr…

> your crypto no regulation gauntlet at fiat and demand them to comply to your game you can pay a homeless person with cash. you can pay a street performer with cash. you can gift cash. it's all anonymous no fuss. that's what crypto is, digital cash, not a digital credit card

Someone (government) has to print your cash, track them, fight counterfeit. Cash is harder to track. But it is not no regulation.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#133

Post by numtel »

rapsey wrote: post #109
numtel wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason a cryptocurrency cannot be paired with judicial institutions that provide recourse for lost or stolen funds. The innovation of cryptocurrency is simple and undeniable. Fiat money requires armed forces to secure its supply against counterfeiters. Cryptocurrency uses math to defeat counterfeiting.

> The innovation of cryptocurrency is simple and undeniable. Yes but does the innovation have market value? For the amount of investment, there has been no real demand for the innovation. > Fiat money requires armed forces to secure its supply against counterfeiters. Yes fiat money lives in the real world. This is why it is used in the real world. > Cryptocurrency uses math to defeat counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is…

Counterfeiting is a minor issue in our daily lives because so much resources have to be devoted to keeping it that way.

"By 1865, up to one-third or even one-half of American money in circulation was fake." [0]

Governments regularly have to redesign their bills in order to prevent counterfeiting.

Extreme punishments are given for the crime of counterfeiting.

It's not just private actors to worry about. Opposing nations could destabilize an economy.

When counterfeiting is not a concern and a currency system can be created with very little effort, we can make currencies that we have more agency over.

The demand isn't for a cheaper way to combat counterfeiting but for greater agency over how the money supply is formed.

There is a massive, global call for reduced wealth inequality that existing governments have not been able to address. I'm not certain that cryptocurrency can do it either but it does seem like a possibility.

[0] https://time.com/3774327/lincoln-history-secret-service/

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#134

Post by buboard »

_7fvc wrote: post #132
buboard wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your crypto no regulation gauntlet at fiat and demand them to comply to your game you can pay a homeless person with cash. you can pay a street performer with cash. you can gift cash. it's all anonymous no fuss. that's what crypto is, digital cash, not a digital credit card

Someone (government) has to print your cash, track them, fight counterfeit. Cash is harder to track. But it is not no regulation.

i am not aware that a government's function is to track people's cash

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#135

Post by [deleted] »

arcticbull wrote: post #98
darawk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of them. There is no such thing as a 'fake' bitcoin transaction. What you are thinking of is fake trading volume on exchanges. Those are very different things.

No, I’m saying that the fake trading volume sets the price which then determines the number of bitcoin sent in the real transactions. Since nothing is priced in BTC the exchange rate defines the quantities transacted.

[deleted]

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#136

Post by tuesdayrain »

_7fvc wrote: post #110

Cryptocurrency space is focusing on the wrong problems. Bitcoin original goal is to create a digital currency that people can use. We're not even close to achieve that goal. But the space is sidetracked into ugly technical wars, elaborate and complicated financial engineering. There are some fundamental questions that have not been answered. If you are starting, you should look at these. - How do we make Bitcoin/cryp…

I would much rather use stablecoins such as Dai for spending instead of trying to tweak Bitcoin's monetary policy.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#137

Post by tuesdayrain »

buboard wrote: post #120
_7fvc wrote: post #110

Cryptocurrency space is focusing on the wrong problems. Bitcoin original goal is to create a digital currency that people can use. We're not even close to achieve that goal. But the space is sidetracked into ugly technical wars, elaborate and complicated financial engineering. There are some fundamental questions that have not been answered. If you are starting, you should look at these. - How do we make Bitcoin/cryp…

I d say most of the hurdles are regulatory. Bitcoin has become digital gold - a place to store large amounts as a hedge and nothing more. Cryptocurrency will not take the place of visa payments because there s no insurance, its slow etc. All the uses where cryptocurrency would shine and visa cannot do (e.g. quick anonymous tips for your comment) are illegal. So we re stuck until either the regulatory framework or nat…

A major benefit of cryptocurrencies is the inability to chargeback. Obviously this is not desirable in 100% of situations, but it is undeniably a necessary niche. This is something streamers and other public figures constantly have to worry about, since some people find it amusing to donate thousands of dollars and then chargeback months later.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#138

Post by darawk »

arcticbull wrote: post #98
darawk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of them. There is no such thing as a 'fake' bitcoin transaction. What you are thinking of is fake trading volume on exchanges. Those are very different things.

No, I’m saying that the fake trading volume sets the price which then determines the number of bitcoin sent in the real transactions. Since nothing is priced in BTC the exchange rate defines the quantities transacted.

That seems like a pretty silly argument. The transactions are not in any sense fake. The fake trading volume is also not in any sense setting the price. Roughly 5-10 billion usd volume per day is completely legitimate, and it is that volume that actually determines the price. The fake volume on low quality exchanges is just noise that follows the price, it isn't a component of price discovery.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#139

Post by darawk »

arcticbull wrote: post #105
blhack wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's baffling to me seeing the progression of anti-blockchain people. They keep insisting that it's all a joke, and yet every single day the level of adoption keeps on increasing. I feel like I'm watching the internet be born again.

Sadly it’s the opposite of a joke. 1 bitcoin transaction is 607kWh (or 288kgCO2 and 85g of ewaste). And the more efficient technology gets the less efficient bitcoin gets. Patently absurd. 95% of volume is fraudulent, and decentralized and trustless means that’s an intentional, irrevocable part of the system. Being able to circumvent international sanctions and pay terrorists is a feature. North Korea has been accumu…

> And the more efficient technology gets the less efficient bitcoin gets.

Incorrect. The technology getting more efficient does not make Bitcoin less efficient. You probably didn't actually think through this point, because it's nonsensical.

> 95% of volume is fraudulent, and decentralized and trustless means that’s an intentional, irrevocable part of the system.

95% of volume on exchanges that nobody pays any attention to anyway. Binance, Coinbase, Kraken, Bittrex, etc all have completely legitimate volume numbers.

> The higher the price goes the more you have to pay miners for the same job.

This is only true as long as new bitcoins are still being minted. And it's also only true if the rate of increase in the price outstrips the decrease in the minting rate.

> And it solves no actual problems people have. Sweet joke fam. I feel like I’m watching the liberty reserve all over again.

Ok. Don't buy any then. Meanwhile, people living under repressive and fiscally irresponsible governments will continue to use it to protect their wealth, as they have been doing.

Re: Cryptocurrency Startup School

#140

Post by tuesdayrain »

arcticbull wrote: post #92
blhack wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were 320k transactions in the last 24 hours on mainnet alone (for bitcoin).

How many of them were fake? 95%. [1] While I understand that applies to exchanges and not mainnet, the reality is that each mainet transaction is impacted because it's the 95% of fake volume that sets the price and therefore the terms of exchange for the "real" transactions. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2019/03/22/95-of-repor...

I'm constsntly amused by the lack of technical understanding on HN when it comes to cryptocurrencies. That article says 95% of trading volume is fake. This is absolutely different from on chain transactions, 100% of which are real.
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