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An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

psychologytoday.com

131–140 of 165 posts

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#131

I am from a third-world religious country and I'd just like to take this chance to say that religion should be classified as a mental disorder. I see the effects of it first hand, severely crippling the potential of individuals and entire cultures. There's nothing it offers that can't be taught by basic morals which don't require you to appease an imaginary entity or repress the human spirit. Even the leaders of reli…

Does the last paragraph of the article irks you a bit? The author is basically saying "Yes, we could abandon religious practices and eliminate all potential sexual abuse in religious communities, but then people would be less likely to volunteer and be slightly less happy" and somehow the author is interpreting this situation as a net loss. I don't get it.

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#132

I am from a third-world religious country and I'd just like to take this chance to say that religion should be classified as a mental disorder. I see the effects of it first hand, severely crippling the potential of individuals and entire cultures. There's nothing it offers that can't be taught by basic morals which don't require you to appease an imaginary entity or repress the human spirit. Even the leaders of reli…

Sounds to me like you’ve got the wrong religion prevalent in your country, which I agree is a bad bad thing. There have been many atrocities committed by people claiming to adhere to some divine mandate (hello crusades!) and that is problematic.

But religion as a whole doesn’t have to be bad. Many religions preach tolerance for others—one of their primary missions is to eliminate the very hate and inequality you have spoken of. Just look at what some religions do to help people because they believe it’s something their God would like them to do: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/humanitaria...

Again, I’m really sorry to hear that religion has been used to oppress rather than to bond in your country. But the right kind of religion (as this corrected study seems to show) actually improves communities. I hope you can find a solution. :-/

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#133
post #2

"The paper received a great deal of attention, and was covered by over 80 media outlets including The Economist, the Boston Globe, the Los Angeles Times, and Scientific American." And how many of these will cover the retraction? A dozen at most? And all those articles will be sitting out there, getting cited and read on occasion.

there should be a law that makes them keep reposting the story every year until they reach the numbers from the original release

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#134
I wonder if a religious education resulting in some positive effects might be akin to the "any diet is effective" thing, i.e. it's not the specific upbringing as much as being exposed to _any_ moral thinking in general.

I don't mean to imply that there aren't moral a-religious educators of course, just that it seems likely to have less discussion of ethics for any kid once the temple/church/mosque/whatever is removed.

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#136
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is that no one can give a bright-line rule[2] to distinguish between the "real" science and pseudo-science "if you can't repeat and predict, stop calling it science" seems like a nice bright line. Peer-review obviously isn't enough, I'd like to see peer-replicated studies become a thing.

What about astronomy, cosmology, archeology, paleontology, volcanology, evolutionary biology, cladistics, macroeconomics, etc., which do not allow us to "repeat and predict," as you say? Some of these cases can be rescued by considering "retrodiction"[1][2] as valid substitute for prediction in the right circumstances, but not all. I personally think the analysis of the Mott problem[3] points the way to the solution…

Not that I necessarily agree, but the suggestion was to find a different word for these fields.

(Also, most of the fields you listed do allow for replication.)

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#137
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the problem here. A statistical error was made, published, and then corrected. That's possible in physics, chemistry, or biology just as well.

> That's possible in physics, chemistry, or biology just as well. Yet it seems to happen far less often, or at the very least, in less publicly impacting ways. Part of this is the media, but part of it is the participants themselves. If you discover something new in physics for example, either the public doesn't care, or they don't really know, they just get a faster iPhone processor a couple years down the line when…

I tend to agree. There is a plausible hypothesis to explain it too. Namely, that many social scientists don't particularly like doing statistics or calculations or that they are not naturally very good at it or that they are not very conscientious. None of these factors contribute to reliable analyses. People mostly go into social sciences when they are more interesting in people than in statistics or calculations.

A study friend of mine who studied an exact science ended up working in the social science department where he also was asked to teach some research methods class. Suffice it to say that even PhD students are not very good at it. Even at things where you would suppose they would be closer to their core competency, i.e., they were not that good at avoiding the pitfall of putting leading questions in a questionaire.

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#138
post #106
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're supporting my point here, all your examples did not make an accurate prediction. Thus, they are not known 'facts'. Your definition of 'science' is 'the best we know', mine, and I think what is meaningful for public discourse is 'this is true'.

Sure, but what's your definition of "true"? Derivable from first principles? General consensus? Observed once and seems to fit with the current model?

"One idea is truer than another if it allows us to explain and understand more of our experience.

The idea that the sun and stars move around the Earth explained only why they move across the sky, but the idea that the Earth orbits the sun while rotating on its axis is more true, because it explains also why we have seasons. Strictly speaking, however, we will never know whether the Earth really revolves around the sun; another, even truer, theory could conceivably come along.

In support of his view, James pointed out that in practice all scientific theories are approximations. Rarely, if ever, does one theory explain all the facts of experience. Instead, one theory often does well with one set of phenomena while the other theory does well with another set.

A scientific theory that explains more is truer than one that explains less, and the truer theory is preferred. Kuhn might add that even a paradigm that explains no more phenomena than a rival but explains those phenomena better is preferred—as for example Copernicus’ heliocentric model of the solar system was preferred to Ptolemy’s geocentric model, because Copernicus’ model was simpler and more elegant that the cumbersome epicycles of Ptolemy’s model, even though at the time the two models fitted astronomical data about equally well. If scientists prefer theories that explain more phenomena and paradigms that make more sense of our experience more plausibly, then the progress of science no longer seems so unreasonable. It is the result of selection, the exercise of scientists’ preference for theories and paradigms that make better sense of our experience."

Taken from the book "Understanding Behaviorism" by William M. Baum.

Re: An erroneous paper on religion and generosity is retracted

#139
post #42

I think it's situations like this that result in society having such a hard time with 'science'. The term has been so heavily co-opted by fields that just don't have sufficient rigger for the term to hold weight. Yet, on various topics, we have this publicized attack of "your a science denier!". At the end of the day, there are two 'types' of science, one where I can take the results and make accurate predictions, an…

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