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U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#131

Post by brosinante »

whiddershins wrote: post #122
alpb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how you create terrorists. Um no, you are wrong. _What USA does_ is terrorism. When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism. Sorry if you're an American but you've got some learning to do about the biggest terrorist organization in the world before calling others a terrorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRbnPA3fd5U

Just stop. Absolutely stop equating these things. The world as we know it, the progress in art, science, and humanities. The cures for polio, infant mortality and poverty dropping. The website you are currently using to spread poison. Those are all “_What USA does_” Cut it out with this evil language.

How dare people criticize the U.S. They certainly created art, science and the humanities, not to mention put them in books to civilize all those shithole countries?

I was not aware that curing polio is a global absolution of sins.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#132

Post by ageofwant »

stevenjohns wrote: post #52
gcatalfamo wrote: post #14

This is how you create terrorists. What do you think the children and friends feelings towards the US will be from now on? People get radicalized for much less than that.

No it's not. These types of comments are extremely inappropriate. Your comment tries to suggest that: 1. Terrorists are people with legitimate grievances 2. Terrorists are representatives of oppressed people 3. Terrorists have genuine reasons for their actions All of these things are false. People do not turn into international, careless murderers just because they experience travesty. Terrorists exploit this concept…

Perhaps you are confused with the term "terrorist". s/terrorist/freedom fighter/g. Is that more palatable ? Or is the narrative contextual, depending on which side you find yourself on ?

All three of your assertions are wrong, regardless. And you have no business judging 'appropriateness'. Of course there are criminals that take advantage of situations, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that they are not the types that blow themselves up to make a quick buck.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#133

Post by TeMPOraL »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #124
TeMPOraL wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This definition only reinforces the parent's point. What it rules out as "not terrorism" is regular organized crime, which isn't too much into bombings anyway. Bombs are almost never used without a political/ideological agenda, because they're too expensive and require too much coordination to make, maintain and deploy.

By that logic, you could describe WWII as just a bunch of terrorists who disagreed. Which of course, nobody does.

Except that to some extent, they do. When my country was occupied by the Nazi Germany, people who fought back were called freedom fighters by us. They were called terrorists by the Nazis.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#134

Post by whiddershins »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #114
oh_sigh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this a lot but is there any basis for this? Were any of the 9/11 attackers widowed/orphaned by the US? Or were they just whipped up in religious fervor and an abstract idea of a cultural war with the US? And does it go the other way? Do you create violent anti-Islamists when Muslims commit terror attacks? Were the orphans of 9/11 more likely to sign up for the US military, or commit hate crimes against Muslims…

> And does it go the other way? Do you create violent anti-Islamists when Muslims commit terror attacks? Were the orphans of 9/11 more likely to sign up for the US military, or commit hate crimes against Muslims than their non-directly-affected peers? Yes, of course it does. Hell, even on the recent 9/11 HN thread there were people who said they joined the military after the towers collapsed. It's only natural reacti…

It’s just not a loop.

Jihadists aren’t in a loop. That’s a myth. Jihad is real to them, and they are attacking non believers.

The stated motivation for the 9/11 attacks were the presence of U.S. airbases in Saudi Arabia. Not revenge for some past hurt or attack.

Why does everyone presume that what they say isn’t what they mean?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#135

Post by robert_foss »

King-Aaron wrote: post #109
alpb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how you create terrorists. Um no, you are wrong. _What USA does_ is terrorism. When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism. Sorry if you're an American but you've got some learning to do about the biggest terrorist organization in the world before calling others a terrorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRbnPA3fd5U

This is such an inane counter-argument.

Is it really? You're fighting by instilling fear in the enemy and mostly killing civilians.

But also, the US should be held accountable for its actions.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#136

Post by lopmotr »

alpb wrote: post #78
gcatalfamo wrote: post #14

This is how you create terrorists. What do you think the children and friends feelings towards the US will be from now on? People get radicalized for much less than that.

> This is how you create terrorists. Um no, you are wrong. _What USA does_ is terrorism. When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism. Sorry if you're an American but you've got some learning to do about the biggest terrorist organization in the world before calling others a terrorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRbnPA3fd5U

It sounds like you judge people by the consequences of their actions rather than their intentions. I tend to agree with that way of thinking but many people do the opposite and believe intentions are the morally superior way of judging good and bad.

The trouble with judging by actions is it makes everybody bad, including the judge! I suspect that's why people don't like it. Since nearly everyone believes their own intentions are good, judging by intentions preserves their own sense of goodness even if they contribute to a few killings by accident/negligence.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#137

Post by jonathanstrange »

stevenjohns wrote: post #52
gcatalfamo wrote: post #14

This is how you create terrorists. What do you think the children and friends feelings towards the US will be from now on? People get radicalized for much less than that.

No it's not. These types of comments are extremely inappropriate. Your comment tries to suggest that: 1. Terrorists are people with legitimate grievances 2. Terrorists are representatives of oppressed people 3. Terrorists have genuine reasons for their actions All of these things are false. People do not turn into international, careless murderers just because they experience travesty. Terrorists exploit this concept…

What I find shocking about your comment is that your points 1-3 can obviously be true and very often are - and if you don't believe they can be true, then you couldn't possibly understand why terrorism exists in the first place.

The devil is always in the detail, but generally speaking terrorists are violent combatants who pursue certain political goals, but don't have a regular army, and at some point in their life unfortunately accepted the idea that it is legitimate to intentionally harm or kill civilians to reach those goals. Accepting this horrible idea is what makes them terrorists.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#138

Post by misja »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #107
alpb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how you create terrorists. Um no, you are wrong. _What USA does_ is terrorism. When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism. Sorry if you're an American but you've got some learning to do about the biggest terrorist organization in the world before calling others a terrorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRbnPA3fd5U

> When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism Only if the motive for dropping those bombs is to advance a political/ideological agenda. We need to be very clear that "terrorism" has a very specific meaning. It's not just a group or individual who terrorises.

Genuine question: if the motivation for this bombing was not political or ideological, what was it then?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#140

Post by lopmotr »

misja wrote: post #138
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism Only if the motive for dropping those bombs is to advance a political/ideological agenda. We need to be very clear that "terrorism" has a very specific meaning. It's not just a group or individual who terrorises.

Genuine question: if the motivation for this bombing was not political or ideological, what was it then?

I think terrorism is killing random members of a population to scare the others into some political or ideological change. It wouldn't count if it was targeted at fighters and civilians got killed by accident.
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