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United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

justice.gov

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Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#131

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

txcwpalpha wrote: post #104
fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you send a letter it does not belong to the post office while in transit. Why are bits on a hard drive any different?

Inspectors can and do inspect the contents many types of mail, though, so I'm not sure this example is a good one for those championing privacy... To elaborate: when using the US Postal Service, only domestic "First Class Mail" and "Priority Mail" (these are different and distinct from standard mail) is protected and requires a probable cause warrant to open and inspect. Other types of mail, as well as all packages s…

How does that jive with:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Probably the same way civil asset forfeiture does, somehow precedent became the supreme law of the land as opposed to the constitution.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#132

Post by henryfjordan »

bb88 wrote: post #32
HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Rightly or wrongly, that is not a part of the SF86 form when one applies for a clearance. The SF86 form offers no leeway for moral objections. So in such a scenario, it would be better to not submit the SF86 form in the first place. The only people I'm aware of that can publish classified information without punishment are journalists.

The laws against publishing classified information only apply to people who are authorized to have it in the first place. As soon as that info makes its way to someone who is NOT authorized to see it, they can legally do whatever they want with it.

There is no legal definition of "journalist" in this context.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#133

Post by txcwpalpha »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #131
txcwpalpha wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inspectors can and do inspect the contents many types of mail, though, so I'm not sure this example is a good one for those championing privacy... To elaborate: when using the US Postal Service, only domestic "First Class Mail" and "Priority Mail" (these are different and distinct from standard mail) is protected and requires a probable cause warrant to open and inspect. Other types of mail, as well as all packages s…

How does that jive with: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Probably the same way civil asset forfeiture does, somehow p…

I really have no idea why the 4th amendment only applies to a subset of mail, just that it does. It'd be great if someone with more knowledge could explain the reasoning behind it.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#134

Post by beardog »

koolba wrote: post #114
HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

That does not make it less illegal. It just makes it a perfect candidate for jury nullification! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

and now neither you nor anyone else who reads this comment are able to properly serve on the jury

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#135

Post by dooglius »

abecedarius wrote: post #15

I bought the book, and I hereby commit to donating a large multiple of the price to an appropriate charity or Snowden himself if they win this suit.

It's not about going after Snowden, it's about going after the publishers of the book.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#136

Post by colejohnson66 »

geggam wrote: post #118
colejohnson66 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, AFAIK, there’s nothing binding the government from enacting a law against treason or espionage. So they did a century ago. The problem is not that (depending on who you ask). The problem is that they’re abusing “national security” to justify needing secret courts and claiming a legally protected action (whistleblowing[0]) is illegal. [0]: Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W…

There are fundamental rules in the bill of rights the govt has passed laws to circumvent. Those laws are fundamentally illegal

Such as?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#137

Post by nostrademons »

Rooster61 wrote: post #53
bb88 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an originalist (and I'm not saying that I am), data in transmit is not necessarily protected by that amendment If your data has left your house, is it really your data, or is it Google's say?

Not trying to plug Andrew Yang here, but this is a big part of his platform. He's advocating for a right-to-data bill that would make any and all data collected and transmitted yours. If that goes into place, your data immediately becomes subject to these amendments. It does away with some of the legal grey area that surrounds data.

Curious how this handles data that is not specifically about one person, but is about the relationships between many people?

Facebook's social graph, for instance: is the fact that I am friends with someone on Facebook my property, their property, or Facebook's property? Or this conversation we're having on HN: you could argue that we each own our words, but the conversation itself (including contextual replies, quoted text, arguments responded to, etc.) is its own entity that doesn't make sense when individual posts are removed, and that's why HN has a time limit for deleting your posts. What about a crowd shot that has various other people in the background? Is it property of the photographer, the clearly-visible foreground subjects, or anyone who happens to appear in it? Does that mean someone who goes around tourist attractions photobombing people has a right to claim all your family photos?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#138

Post by onetimemanytime »

HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

>>This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government removes their constitutational rights.

He can do whatever he wants but he has to suffer the consequences. Every state has secrets and employees with top clearances learn them by swearing to keep the secret. He can go to Congress or through the chain of command....or risk jail and financial ruin. Otherwise a CIA ex-chief could write a book and name all US spies in China or Russia...

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#139

Post by [deleted] »

codeddesign wrote: post #98
reaperducer wrote: post #33

Can one of the internet lawyers out there explain why this is a civil lawsuit, and not a criminal lawsuit? I'd think that if he committed an actual crime, it would be a criminal suit. I thought civil suits were for people trying to get money out of each other. Or is this like how the feds couldn't get Al Capone for murder so they put him away for tax evasion?

I especially like the fact that he can’t fly back to the US since he has no passport, but at the same time he is being prosecuted. It’s been so long, why even care? Who is running the show on this?

[deleted]
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