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Update on AB5

uber.com

131–140 of 343 posts

Re: Update on AB5

#131
post #76

Uber's defense fails The Duck Test. They are describing a job, people doing a job, people paying for a job, and people taking a cut of the profits. They just don't use those words. I suspect if/when this gets to a higher court, the whole thing will come crashing down, because to allow Uber's weaselly redefinition of common terms, would be to allow other classes of employment to similarly become unprotected.

The question isn’t whether they’re doing a job, it’s whether drivers are acting as contractors vs employees while performing the job.

Ironically, taxi drivers are also contractors. I’m surprised nobody has brought up the fact that the status quo pre-Uber was a contractor model as well.

The real problem is that the Dynamex decision is legislation from the bench that redefines “contractor.” The historical definition of a contractor was basically only c in the abc test. It will be interesting to see how the court decisions come down. As the press release points out, the precedent so far is mixed.

Re: Update on AB5

#132
post #76

Uber's defense fails The Duck Test. They are describing a job, people doing a job, people paying for a job, and people taking a cut of the profits. They just don't use those words. I suspect if/when this gets to a higher court, the whole thing will come crashing down, because to allow Uber's weaselly redefinition of common terms, would be to allow other classes of employment to similarly become unprotected.

I do feel that driver's being able to work for multiple ride sharing companies at the same time does make it a bit different from a normal job. A majority of drivers have both Lyft and uber enabled at the same time.... so are they employees of both? How should benefits be calculated?

If I am an employee of a company, they are probably not going to let me work for a competitor while I am on the clock with them.

Re: Update on AB5

#133

Uber's defense is that it is licensing lead generation software to drivers, and that it just takes a commission from each trip as payment for use of its software. In many ways, I can see it. I think the issue lies in a lot of Uber's current policies around drivers e.g. very strict rules around cancellations. If Uber was just a lead generation provider then it shouldn't care or intervene if a driver decides they don't…

Maybe relaxing the rules will be an unintended consequence of the law.

Re: Update on AB5

#134
I like how they both claim that the law does not actually apply to them, and that they are exploring working with Lyft and others on a statewide ballot measure in response to the law (clearly, implicitly, a referendum to reverse it.) They are careful to avoid making the self-contradiction explicit, but the implication is clear.

Re: Update on AB5

#135
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just repeating the Uber party line that somehow "employment" is antithetical to flexible work hours. It's frightening to see people just lap that up because it happens to coincide with their day job. But nothing in labor law prevents a company like Uber from "disrupting work" and offering that flexibility to employees .

The current employee model as codified in our tax and legal system definitely has lots of assumptions around only having a single W2 employer. Certaintly not impossible , but definitely not a good fit. I agree with the OP, and I am not just "repeating the Uber party line". I believe 3 categories of work are needed: 1. Employee (e.g. current W2), where you have a single full-time employer who is primarily responsible…

Many people have multiple jobs (even full-time jobs) and receive multiple W2s in the mail every year. I'm not an expert in employment law but I haven't seen evidence that the current multi-job system isn't workable here. You can have multiple part time jobs, and if one job goes over a certain threshold of hours then they have to provide you benefits. If you have multiple full-time jobs, all of them are required to offer you participation in employer-sponsored benefits, although you typically only pick one. Is that not how it works?

Re: Update on AB5

#136
post #50
post #8

As someone who drives Uber on occasion when I'm a little bored and looking for something to do, I think it's great that I'm not an Uber employee. I can do 10 hours or I can do 0 hours based on nothing but my own whim. I don't have a problem with people organizing to get a better deal for themselves, but I like the way it works now. I've worked for companies that misclassify workers, and Uber isn't it as far as I unde…

The thing is, I would rather you are more restricted or stop driving for Uber, and full-time drivers get decent terms, then you get to keep your (seemingly) unnecessary side money and full-time people, for whom it is the main job, have substandard conditions and rights. Ideally there wouldn't be a tradeoff, but in practice it seems like there is one.

The more important group that loses without flexible hours are people who get by on a combination of part time jobs, or are training/educating themselves and need extra money to support themselves.

Re: Update on AB5

#137
post #97
post #74

I think the law will be bad for the people it affects, so this is good news for Uber drivers. Uber isn't operating at a profit, so they don't have extra margin to pass on in the form of extra driver pay or employee benefits. If Uber has to shrink their business in California or exit entirely, that won't be good for drivers either. It reminds me of before my software engineering career, when I was working at The Gap.…

This line of thinking can be used against almost any form of labor protections. People don't work in sweatshops because they love the job, they do it because they are desperate. That desperation allows their employer to take advantage of them. The government therefore needs to step in to protect the workers from being taken advantage of. In an ideal world that regulation would also come with some type of social safet…

> People don't work in sweatshops because they love the job, they do it because they are desperate

People don't work in sweatshops because they love the job, they do it because its better than any of their alternatives

Re: Update on AB5

#138
post #89

this is probably going to be labeled as a naive view, but to me it's clear that no one cares about the spirit of the sharing economy (not even corps like uber or airbnb): no one should be dedicating 100% of their "work time" to ubering... nor buying up properties to rent it out as airbnb permanently... I thought it was about unused/wasted time/resources that could be shared (for some profit). Corps likely airbnb and…

That's because these companies have purposefully misrepresented themselves as part of the sharing economy despite the fact that their core business models are nothing like Freecycle or Couchsurfer, or even like casual carpooling.
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