When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness • Hacker News Board

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#131

Post by elicash » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

anewguy9000 wrote: post #126

elicash wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline was "When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness." It's a pretty underwhelming headline and I have no idea why anybody would possibly object to it. How is that clickbait? Even the subheadline is a pretty fair description of events: "In an area without cellphone reception, I was unable to open the car."

yes if you want to get pedantic the subheadline could more aptly read, "i was unable to open or start a car with a dead battery". or for the main headline, "when i took my non-zipcar into the wilderness (and its battery died and i was stranded)", would anybody read it? no.

ZipCar seems to be unique (at least among cars I've used) in that you can't open the doors with a dead battery and it seems there's no mechanical backup. As a result the car needed to be towed. Additionally, you seem to be ignoring that the battery may have died because it couldn't find a cellular signal.

And yes, I would have read it if the subheadline was instead something about modern cars that weren't zipcars that causes this to happen, because it's never been possible with a car I've owned and is pretty interesting.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#132

Post by Bartweiss » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

anewguy9000 wrote: post #120

well um, the car's battery was dead. so how exactly would it open via RFID? of course if you put that piece of information first, the headline isn't so catchy. i digress.

> A tow truck took us to a lot with reception, where the rental failed to start... Still, cars without reception become vulnerable in a few scenarios... when the vehicle battery dies.

> I shudder to think about limping back to a trailhead with no more water in my backpack, only to find a car that would not start. Or getting locked out and marooned in Death Valley, perhaps with medicine trapped in the car.

Yep, "car died at the trailhead" is hardly a novel or Zipcar-specific problem. I've known plenty of people who camped for few days, packed up at dusk, and found themselves with a dead battery and no one around to jump it. Taking a Zipcar with essential medicine into Death Valley is a scary thought, but it's recklessness in a dangerous place rather than some esoteric flaw of Zipcar.

It's a shame, because there are real issues here. Lacking a physical carkey is a real drawback that means you can't wait in your dead car or open the hood to jump it. Having your car die in the woods because you exceeded your reservation time is bad for the user, the next user, and the company. But the article spins those narrow issues as life-or-death flaws, conflates "dead car" with "Zipcar broke", and puts "Zipcars normally work without service" down in paragraph seven after implying in paragraph two that this is a consistent problem.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#133

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #132

anewguy9000 wrote: post #120

well um, the car's battery was dead. so how exactly would it open via RFID? of course if you put that piece of information first, the headline isn't so catchy. i digress.

> A tow truck took us to a lot with reception, where the rental failed to start... Still, cars without reception become vulnerable in a few scenarios... when the vehicle battery dies. > I shudder to think about limping back to a trailhead with no more water in my backpack, only to find a car that would not start. Or getting locked out and marooned in Death Valley, perhaps with medicine trapped in the car. Yep, "car d…

[deleted]

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#134

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

Shorel wrote: post #94

Nextgrid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed about the ban. Since when is shitty technology (which any engineer worth their salt should’ve predicted - this is not rocket science) the fault of the customer? Unless they say in bold in their marketing statements “Only drive within cell coverage” the customer isn’t at fault for trying to use it as a normal car (in fact it’s crazy to think that parking in a place with no reception is no longer normal, at l…

I do agree it is not his fault. But the ban also prevents that particular customer from receiving bad service. Some things are not meant to be.

ZipCar should have formally requested that the customer not park cars in that lot, or what have you.

Since the customer needs to use that lot, they would probably stop using ZipCar at that point—but that's better than being banned forever if their life situation changes.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#135

Post by Kneecaps07 » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #24

I got banned from using Zipcar last year. I lived in a condo building with an under ground parking lot in SF. A few times I rented a Zipcar and left it parked in the parking lot at my condo building. About 50% of the time, the car would not unlock. In all cases, I successfully contacted Zipcar who informed me the only thing they could do is tow the car (usually 24+ hours later). The parking lot had no cell service. O…

That's why I always took the key with me, despite the fact that they tell you not to.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#136

Post by Kneecaps07 » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

prima-facie wrote: post #128

I've rented Zipcars here in the UK many times and never encountered this. The cars have a key in the glove compartment. After you initially unlock it at the beginning of your reservation you take that key with you. You put it back in at the end of the reservation. In between you use it to unlock like a regular car key/fob. Am I missing something here? Edit: https://support.zipcar.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360001460928-…

Technically, according to their rules, you are supposed to leave the key in the car. I didn't think anyone actually paid attention to that rule.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#137

Post by moftz » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #122

greedo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One facet of the problem (the cell coverage) is largely out of Zipcars control, no? I suppose they could add some functionality to their app so that you're alerted when you park at a location without cell coverage?

Lack of cell coverage is out of their control, but that doesn't excuse them from designing around the problem. It appears they're aware of the problem, but certain known issues prevent access (cellular unit draining car battery seems to be the common one and sounds like something that should be fixable).

Add a keypad like Ford has had on their vehicles for like 20 years. Have the computer keep a short list of one time pass codes (and maybe some sort of super long master code) that can be updated whenever the car is in cell service. So in the event that you get into the car, Zipcar can provide one of the one time use codes to get you in the door.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#138

Post by technofiend » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

seltzered_ wrote: post #33

Friend in Seattle had this experience when trying to use a zipcar truck out of a garage while moving (i.e. Limited time window to get stuff out of one area to another). Ended up calling support, dealing with multiple hours of delays. Despite the issues which has led him to avoid Zipcar these days, he uses ReachNow (now defunct) and car2go (now called ShareNow) regularly and AFAIK ReachNow didn't have these limitation…

Zipcar has RFID-based card access now. Sounds like they just need to cache an auth token locally when there is cell service saying how long the car may be used for. Although there's still an edge case that parking out of cell service range when the token expires will disable the car even if you extend the contract since there's no way to refresh the token.

Perhaps they could create an RFID token in their app and let the RFID-capable phones bear that to the car since it's much easier to move a phone than a car, not to mention potentially get wifi service where there is no cell service.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#139

Post by nneonneo » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

Both car2go and Evo here in Vancouver appear to have the right idea - when you rent a car, cell access is only needed for starting and ending the rental (which must be done within city limits). For a stopover (stopping the car without ending the rental), you just take the physical key with you.

They’re also quite convenient since you can pick up and drop off the cars at almost any street or parking garage. Because Vancouver doesn’t (yet?) have Uber or Lyft, they serve a really important role here.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#140

Post by epoch_100 » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

anewguy9000 wrote: post #126

elicash wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline was "When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness." It's a pretty underwhelming headline and I have no idea why anybody would possibly object to it. How is that clickbait? Even the subheadline is a pretty fair description of events: "In an area without cellphone reception, I was unable to open the car."

yes if you want to get pedantic the subheadline could more aptly read, "i was unable to open or start a car with a dead battery". or for the main headline, "when i took my non-zipcar into the wilderness (and its battery died and i was stranded)", would anybody read it? no.

A key element here is that the battery likely died _because_ there was no service. When the car's cellular unit is scanning for service, it uses significantly more power than usual—quickly draining the battery.