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The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

2019.phpce.eu

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Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#131

Post by gmueckl »

trhway wrote: post #128
sdinsn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, it's pretty offensive. They are treating women like props, and they just want women to be present so they can feel inclusive.

>They are treating women like props, and they just want women to be present so they can feel inclusive. May be they are afraid of the alternative - being branded as non-inclusive, male-chauvinistic, etc. if they don't bring enough women to make the quota sufficient enough to avoid the branding (as we've seen such branding is no joke in the modern environment and can be painfully damaging when it comes to real things…

At some German universities, research groups that have too few female members (for a rather arbitrary threshold) are put under pressure to fix this. Except that they can't because they don't get any applications from women.

This kind of statistics driven approach to gender equality seems to be spreading around here.

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#132

Post by dmix »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #32
curiousgal wrote: post #14

As a woman I find it pretty damn objectifying for someone to withdraw from a conference because it has no female speakers. Why should anyone care about anything other than php in a php conference?

Even worse is when my girlfriend voiced a similar concern about a hacker meeting here in Mexico about how obsessed they seemed to be about getting women speakers at any cost instead of focusing on good content. She was basically told she only thought that way because she was brainwashed by men and didn’t actually believe what she was saying, though I'm embellishing a bit for succinctness. How do you even argue with s…

People find ways to ruin all good things. Even something like helping women feel more welcome in the industry.

They always seem to have a high representation among authority figures at conferences for some reason.

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#133

Post by nf8nnfufuu »

abeisgreat wrote: post #22
curiousgal wrote: post #14

As a woman I find it pretty damn objectifying for someone to withdraw from a conference because it has no female speakers. Why should anyone care about anything other than php in a php conference?

Well one way to think about it is to view the current structure (one of male dominated events) is already enforcing a system that isn't just about PHP. It's a structure where we put men on stage and leave (a few) women to silently sit in the back. The attempts by speakers and organisers to level this field is trying to get the events to just be about PHP. However they realize that things are very off balance already…

It's not "a structure", there just happen to be few women willing to speak at such events.

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#134

Post by mieseratte »

trhway wrote: post #128
sdinsn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, it's pretty offensive. They are treating women like props, and they just want women to be present so they can feel inclusive.

>They are treating women like props, and they just want women to be present so they can feel inclusive. May be they are afraid of the alternative - being branded as non-inclusive, male-chauvinistic, etc. if they don't bring enough women to make the quota sufficient enough to avoid the branding (as we've seen such branding is no joke in the modern environment and can be painfully damaging when it comes to real things…

Are there really people that worried that they’d cancel an entire conference? Do people feel their lives or livelihoods are at stake here or?

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#135

Post by PunchTornado »

shkkmo wrote: post #72
Yver wrote: post #42

There is something unsettling in men refusing to attend an event because not enough women wanted to be there. (only one woman applied) They asked the organizers to find more women for them. "Bring me some women!" said the male speakers.

There is something heart warming about people making personal sacrifices to promote divirsity. "Here, take back some of the money you were using to pay for our travel and use it to bring in some female speakers" said the male speakers.

cancel the entire event and leave everyone with their plans in the air. tickets, hotels, trips, everything lost. that makes sense.

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#136

Post by nf8nnfufuu »

sp332 wrote: post #87
curiousgal wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do all men feel accepted, respected, and praised just because they are men? No, the ones that do have earned it. Like so, I personally would like to get invited to give a talk only because I am the best person out there who can do so on the topic at hand, not because some organizers feel like they have some sort of obligation to be politically correct.

Men are encouraged to go into CS just because they are men. https://www.bustle.com/p/girls-still-arent-encouraged-to-go-...

Yet another silly feminist statistic, cleverly cropping context to make things look bad.

This is about advisories given to 16 to 18 year old boys and girls.

Does it seem possible that the advisors took the track record of the person they advise into account. Like for example their choices of subjects at school, their grades in Math, those sorts of things? And perhaps those aspects were more important in advising for or against STEM than the person's gender?

To me, that seems rather likely. But creative feminist statistics make it seem as if gender was the only determining factor, PROVING discrimination.

It's actually a pretty nice example of how typical feminist propaganda works.

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#137

Post by nf8nnfufuu »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #120
sp332 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are encouraged to go into CS just because they are men. https://www.bustle.com/p/girls-still-arent-encouraged-to-go-...

A group with a self interest to have a certain outcome exist find that outcome to exist. It's a bit hard to say that this is a well made study with that conflict of interest involved. Don't get me wrong there are definitely problems abound and studies to support that position, I just don't think Bustle or Sky are the rigorous organizations to lead that charge. I was never encouraged to go into technology, my family w…

We don't value fields less because women enter it.

First of all, there is simple supply and demand. More candidates wanting to do a specific job means lower pay.

Secondly, you should ask WHY women suddenly want to enter some field. Very likely, circumstances have changed for that job. Maybe it now allows for flex time, or new machinery makes it safer, or whatever. I don't have a good example at hand. But I would look at that - very likely it is that thing that makes it cheaper (because it is more attractive), not the women entering it.

Another possibility could be a job starts paying less, so the men leave and the women come in (since they are less dependent on high income).

Edit: I just saw example of physicians on the net, which reminds me that women also tend to work fewer ours. Apparently physicians is one of those example where women have taken over and rates seem to have dropped. However, I know that female physicians work far fewer hours than male physicians (averages), which could presumably explain the drop. (example from Germany, don't know about physicians world wide).

Re: The phpCE 2019 conference in Dresden has been cancelled and won't be continued

#138

Post by gmueckl »

esotericn wrote: post #26

Tangent that may be relevant here. I used to be involved in access work for those from underprivileged backgrounds. It's very difficult to get poor kids to apply to University even if they have the grades, for reasons I expect are pretty similar (social environment, not 'fitting in', having few role models, etc). Going back further - tons of them simply don't have the grades or skills, because they weren't interested…

I agree that this stuff is difficult, but you are seeing things fron a US-centric perspective. Different societies and different cultures have different root causes and mechanisms that create similar inequalities.
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