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OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

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Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#131

Post by rlpb »

bennofs wrote: post #129
rlpb wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works with ad-hoc wifi with no other infrastructure requirement or Internet connection, just the same as AirDrop. What more do you require to meet your definition of "disparate peer to peer wireless mesh"?

I think the point is that most clients probably don't configure the ad-hoc network for you? Or do they?

I thought we were talking about enabling technologies, rather than specific clients, and that it's a given that a suitable and widely deployed client doesn't currently exist. I consider automatic configuration of an ad-hoc network to be a relatively trivial client implementation detail :)

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#132

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mxuribe wrote: post #81

It is 2019, and it is quite surprising - and disappointing - that we STILL haven't universally solved the means to easily, securely, and (yes, I'll use this term again) universally share files. I wish we could share files in a peer-to-peer fashion securely without hindrance of mobile platform, nor blockage of network MiTM, etc.

Opera Unite did it (and that's about the fifth time this year I've mentioned Opera Unite in response to a comment bemoaning a lack in currently embedded internet systems/apps).

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#133

Post by pbhjpbhj »

adestefan wrote: post #77
toxik wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t hep but think that these seemingly numerous security flaws are a product of proprietary software development. There is the old “many eyes” idea for software bugs, but even on a standards level. Did Apple not send out an RFC? Isn’t this type of architectural level screw up exactly what you want to avoid with an RFC? I’m glad Apple are taking the privacy issue to heart, but for every inch we’ve won in privacy,…

The “many eyes” hypothesis is routinely debunked when severe security bugs are found in things like the Linux kernel that have been there for years. The same is true for standards that end up being fundamentally broken at later dates. In the end software and hardware is so overly complicated that we cannot currently build secure systems.

>The “many eyes” hypothesis is routinely debunked when severe security bugs are found in things like the Linux kernel that have been there for years. //

Surely to debunk the theory you have to show that fewer bugs are in proprietary software of the same vintage?

AFAIK the many eyes hypothesis is that: as time progresses fewer exploitable bugs will exist in software that has the source open for inspection than in comparable closed source software(?).

When an ages old exploit/bug gets patched that is the many eyes principle working; a piece of software can't get more secure (or otherwise improve) without patching old code, surely.

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#134

Post by cyphar »

mxuribe wrote: post #81

It is 2019, and it is quite surprising - and disappointing - that we STILL haven't universally solved the means to easily, securely, and (yes, I'll use this term again) universally share files. I wish we could share files in a peer-to-peer fashion securely without hindrance of mobile platform, nor blockage of network MiTM, etc.

Have you taken a look at magic-wormhole[1]? I've started using it recently and it's insanely easy to use.

It does have a centralised signalling server for key exchange between peers, but it does attempt to do peer-to-peer data transfer (only falling back to a TURN-style relay if both clients are behind NATs and aren't on the same local network). An explanation of the cryptography and design was given at PyCon 2016[2]. It also has built-in optional Tor support (though I'm not sure if it attempts to use an onion service for data transfer).

[1]: https://github.com/warner/magic-wormhole [2]: https://youtu.be/oFrTqQw0_3c

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#135

Post by pritambaral »

toxik wrote: post #80
adestefan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “many eyes” hypothesis is routinely debunked when severe security bugs are found in things like the Linux kernel that have been there for years. The same is true for standards that end up being fundamentally broken at later dates. In the end software and hardware is so overly complicated that we cannot currently build secure systems.

I don't think it's as easy as saying "measles exists therefore vaccines don't work." Do you have actual studies on this that you can cite?

It is just as easy, and just as wrong, as saying "measles exists therefore vaccines don't work".

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#136

Post by felipeerias »

If you are interested in possible uses for this kind of technology, my R&D work until recently has been to find use cases for WiFi Aware and bring them to life.

Some examples:

* 1-tap file transfers: https://darker.ink/static/media/uploads/08_awarebeam_1.mp4

* Sharing presentations, images and drawings: https://darker.ink/static/media/uploads/05_meshpresenter_1.m...

* Playing Quake 3 (OpenArena): https://darker.ink/static/media/uploads/02_openarena_1.mp4

If you want to know more details, this talk is a good starting point:

https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/device_to_device_netw...

https://darker.ink/blog/mobile-design-with-device-to-device-...

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#137

Post by pbhjpbhj »

stephenr wrote: post #59
snypox wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a problem but it’s definitely intended by Apple. FaceTime, too.

Steve (Jobs) famously , and impulsively claimed they were going to release FT as open source - so impulsive that he never even checked with their lawyers first, because it never happened due to legal/licensing issues, not because they didn't want to.

Do you think that's true, sounds exactly like a publicity stunt to ensure a big launch in the face of having no answer to "is it interoperable".

If you say "yeah sure it is, we're even releasing it as open source" then you prevent the product falling at the first hurdle because people want an interoperable solution. Once you have adoption network effect carries you through.

Sounds like most probably a standard corporate lie by Jobs; do you have evidence to the contrary?

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#138

Post by liability »

ymolodtsov wrote: post #32
jbverschoor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. But still it’s kind of annoying to have to enable everything. It’s confusing to people who don’t know this.

Enable what? Modern MacOS/iOS discourage you from disabiling Wi-Fi/Bluetooth anyway.

> Modern MacOS[...] discourage you from disabiling Wi-Fi/Bluetooth anyway.

How do you figure? I've never seen any discouragement from it.

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#139

Post by pbhjpbhj »

eknkc wrote: post #71
jumelles wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage too. It's insane to me that this is still a problem.

I like that here in Turkey every single person uses WhatsApp. I recently switched from iOS to Android and haven't realized I lost iMessage.

I'm not sure about every person but most in UK seem to have it too (all my extended family, Church fellowship, parents of my kids school class).

It has some massive annoyances but it's very well embedded.

Re: OpenDrop: An Open Source AirDrop Implementation

#140

Post by zaroth »

cyphar wrote: post #134
mxuribe wrote: post #81

It is 2019, and it is quite surprising - and disappointing - that we STILL haven't universally solved the means to easily, securely, and (yes, I'll use this term again) universally share files. I wish we could share files in a peer-to-peer fashion securely without hindrance of mobile platform, nor blockage of network MiTM, etc.

Have you taken a look at magic-wormhole[1]? I've started using it recently and it's insanely easy to use. It does have a centralised signalling server for key exchange between peers, but it does attempt to do peer-to-peer data transfer (only falling back to a TURN-style relay if both clients are behind NATs and aren't on the same local network). An explanation of the cryptography and design was given at PyCon 2016[2]…

I think this project demonstrates quite handily that the problem scope of a seemingly simple task can be quite large. ~1,500 commits in that repo.
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