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Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#131

Post by tren »

jlangenauer wrote: post #2

If I ever get rich enough to do so, I'm going to buy some land somewhere - perhaps old farming land that's no longer profitable, and just let it return to nature. Let the trees and bushes grow, let the insects, birds and whatever else breed there. I'm beginning to think that's one of the best things one could do for the planet right now.

World Land Trust is a good option, you can "buy" land per acre to protect it in perpetuity. I think we need to protect what we have and then look at rewilding as a second step. If we continue clearing wild areas (e.g the Amazon rainforest) more quickly then we replant, it seems like we're pissing into the wind.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#132

Post by neom »

bbddg wrote: post #113
taneq wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but when faced with the choice between the tomatoes that were $8.50/kg and really nice but would go off in 2 days, vs. the tomatoes that were $4.50/kg and still nice and red and lasted a whole week but were pretty tasteless, you bought the latter, didn't you? Customers demand things by paying money for them.

Customers in many cases don't have the information to know the potential long term damages of buying the $4.50/kg tomatoes. It's insane to put that burden on the end user as opposed to the tomato grower. How in the world is the customer supposed to know what pesticides are used and what the damages could be? Trying to flatten all these problems into the failings of individual customer decisions completely obfuscates…

What's extra weird is that everything got really cheap, yet most people don't have any money, and the environment is in disarray. I'd imagine history is not going to look kindly on the wealthy.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#133

Post by r00fus »

samatman wrote: post #74
sarcasmOrTears wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than one time I bought organic and there wasn't a big difference. Fruit quality and taste is so random that in the end I buy the cheapest

This is in fact among the best signals, because ripe fruit is a perishable commodity that floods the market in season. When I'm casing a supermarket looking for fruit I tend to start with price and then check the goods.

This is the same reason that popular non-fast food restaurants have better tasting food in general.

The flow allows you to have more fresh produce.

I only buy organic when it’s not in some ghetto due to pricing.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#134

Post by bbddg »

neom wrote: post #132
bbddg wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers in many cases don't have the information to know the potential long term damages of buying the $4.50/kg tomatoes. It's insane to put that burden on the end user as opposed to the tomato grower. How in the world is the customer supposed to know what pesticides are used and what the damages could be? Trying to flatten all these problems into the failings of individual customer decisions completely obfuscates…

What's extra weird is that everything got really cheap, yet most people don't have any money, and the environment is in disarray. I'd imagine history is not going to look kindly on the wealthy.

puts every imaginable fruit and veggie in a store at extremely low prices

Why are people buying this food that is harming the planet??

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#135

Post by maxerickson »

mrfusion wrote: post #124

It’s so ironic that all the annoying insects are untouched or possibly worse: mosquitos, wasps, flies, roaches, termites, fire ants.

Here (in a small town) the flies have gone from prevalent to a minor nuisance.

My guess is that the trashcans for the automated garbage trucks having lids is the bigger factor though.

Still lots of biting flies in the woods.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#136

Post by rapind »

obituary_latte wrote: post #36
blodovnik wrote: post #25

There’s no surprise here is there? We, as a society, poison pretty much everything as a standard part of the agricultural process. The outcome -the goal - of that is of course, death of vast numbers of insects. Mission accomplished. It’s a success story, strangely. The only thing that seems weird to me is how society was so easily convinced that soaking all our food in poison is OK and not a problem all good thumbs u…

Is it that society was convinced? Or was/is it that it is more “out of sight, out of mind”? I think for the layperson, little matters other than how much does it cost? If there is some invisible but safe-for-us chemical that increases yield and decreases cost, all the better for us, right? I think this is one of the great things to come out of the invention of the web. We are becoming better informed and this kind of…

That would be true if not for massive disinformation campaigns by corporate interests. Apparently most of us can't be bothered to dig into the source / motivations behind any media story, be it TV news, newspapers, Facebook feeds, Twitter posts, or blogs, etc.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#137

Post by egypturnash »

lonelappde wrote: post #119
bamboozled wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to share an anecdotal story with regards to "tasteless" produce from super markets. I used to absolutely despise eating salad, I never knew why but I always just thought it was boring and I'd rather eat anything else; However, my girlfriend and I wanted to buy produce that wasn't wrapped in plastic so we started to shop at a local market held each week. There we meet a Tongan farmer who grew everything us…

With all respect, that's a load of magical thinking and placebo effect.

I have lived in situations where there was a good farmer's market nearby where I could buy produce directly from small local farmers, and I have had the same thing happen to me. I began looking forwards to eating a salad, then stopped when I no longer had easy access to the good stuff.

The various things that happen to produce destined for a shelf halfway across the country are really just not appetizing.

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#138

Post by LargeWu »

blablabla123 wrote: post #89
obituary_latte wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that society was convinced? Or was/is it that it is more “out of sight, out of mind”? I think for the layperson, little matters other than how much does it cost? If there is some invisible but safe-for-us chemical that increases yield and decreases cost, all the better for us, right? I think this is one of the great things to come out of the invention of the web. We are becoming better informed and this kind of…

> If there is some invisible but safe-for-us chemical that increases yield In fact increased yield is also kind of good for the environment because this way agriculture needs less space. (Speaking of deforestation because of agriculture...) But still, insecticides, fungicides etc. have been used far too carelessly in the past and of course it takes years or sometimes decades to see the effects...

There's certainly a trade-off. However, grocery stores in the US discard massive amounts of produce, and then still more is wasted when consumers bring it home and don't use it. It feels like we would have plenty of room to reduce yields, ship less food around, and still get everybody fed. (that's a hypothesis, not a conclusion)

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#139

Post by colordrops »

obituary_latte wrote: post #36
blodovnik wrote: post #25

There’s no surprise here is there? We, as a society, poison pretty much everything as a standard part of the agricultural process. The outcome -the goal - of that is of course, death of vast numbers of insects. Mission accomplished. It’s a success story, strangely. The only thing that seems weird to me is how society was so easily convinced that soaking all our food in poison is OK and not a problem all good thumbs u…

Is it that society was convinced? Or was/is it that it is more “out of sight, out of mind”? I think for the layperson, little matters other than how much does it cost? If there is some invisible but safe-for-us chemical that increases yield and decreases cost, all the better for us, right? I think this is one of the great things to come out of the invention of the web. We are becoming better informed and this kind of…

> I think this is one of the great things to come out of the invention of the web. We are becoming better informed and this kind of information is becoming more prevalent. It’s becoming much harder for these big corporations to hide these negative side effects

We are at the end of that era. The big corporations are slowly closing down that unintended loophole in which the internet was a tool for free movement of knowledge. Google now filters and shapes results into their idea of what is OK rather than exactly what you are searching for [1]. The FBI just called conspiracy theorists a domestic threat [2] and open forums are under attack [3]. Not long ago you were a nutjob for claiming Monsanto and Roundup were anything other than gifts from God. We will be going back to that world soon enough.

[1] http://autocompleteaudit.com/autocomplete/Bill%20clinton

[2] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/fbi-doc...

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/clxdjk/conspira...

Re: Insect 'apocalypse' in U.S. driven by 50x increase in toxic pesticides: study

#140

Post by egypturnash »

pfdietz wrote: post #76
mhkool wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are neglecting the negative effects of spraying billions of tons of Roundup on the planet before the public knows for sure that it is a dangerous poison. Same with neonics, we sprayed too much and the insect populations shrunk too much and will not revive quickly since the poison is still in plants and soil. The obvious thing is that industries work for profit and have no sympathy with insects or the health of in…

I think this "Roundup is a dangerous poison" was a propaganda meme that came out of the need to demonize US agribusiness in Europe. It's a kind of social activism protectionism. I would not be at all surprised to learn it was sustained by funding from ag interests in Europe. OF course Roundup is not a dangerous poison. This is simply a lie that is repeated over and over by the dishonest and the gullible.

Tell this to my husband's brother, who has probably-terminal cancer of a type that's got a strong statistical link to the chemicals he worked with as a lawncare professional.
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