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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

131–140 of 619 posts

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#131

A thought in the back of my mind is fear of government oppression in a world without prevalent cars. If you have a car you can travel hundreds of miles with few limitations and it's particularly hard to quash this even in an oppressive state. If you only have your feet and public transit you are very limited to distance and location and tracking movements is an easy feature of the system. Things going wrong? The gove…

The US has had gas shortages and gas rationing several times within living memory. Maybe you should take up long-distance bicycling?

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#132
post #75

Good! Americas obsession with cars is one of its most glaring deficiencies. Every city should be accessible without a car, however unless you are in NYC, Chicago, or LA, or San Fran, well then that just isn't true.|

I would definitely not include LA on a list for accessible without a car, and San Francisco is debatable.

I have taken several trips to Los Angeles without using a car. It's not convenient, but it works if you allow enough time - the bus lines do at least exist.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#133
If you are willing or able to live within reach of public transport or bike/walking, a no-car life is awesome. I did many years of tense heavy US traffic before I moved to NL, and I must say it's so awesome to not own or care about a car.

The US is mostly not designed for car-free situations. That's a long story, but it ends in "limited decent public transport options". To go into that topic would be too political here. Suffice to say, unless you live in a progressive part of the US (or you move to within walking range of your job), you need a car.

Europe has the advantage? of being much older, when cities were more dense. There's no place to affordably park a car, so you must walk or bike, or use a bus/tram (or metro/train if you're lucky).

There are certainly times in summer in the Netherlands during peak time when a full train (standing room only) really truly sucks. But that's less than 1/4 of the year. The rest of the time I can work, sleep, look at the attractive fit people, or even talk to people. My days of driving in big Texas city traffic were certainly not that. (Guns actually do get plucked out of glove boxes and waved as a threat from time to time.)

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#134
post #11
post #3

Its amazing to me how cheap these changes are, and how much people love them after they are implemented. You go to a neighborhood meeting in the US and all you hear about is "loss of parking", "traffic", but when you remove the cars, everyone loves it.

There is pushback against car-impacting measures in Europe too, make no mistake. The yellow jackets in France started as a protest against increase in tax on petrol. The previous president in France, Hollande, had to roll back a toll system. It took Paris 2 years of legal battles to close the roads along the Seine. The major difference, compared witg the US, is that at least in an urban setting, in Europe you can ima…

> ...at least in an urban setting, in Europe...

> The problem of the US is that outside of major cities...

What urban setting does the US have outside its major cities? Arguably, that is one of the major problems.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#135
post #133

If you are willing or able to live within reach of public transport or bike/walking, a no-car life is awesome. I did many years of tense heavy US traffic before I moved to NL, and I must say it's so awesome to not own or care about a car. The US is mostly not designed for car-free situations. That's a long story, but it ends in "limited decent public transport options". To go into that topic would be too political he…

I think it’s possible to live car-free in many cities in the US but the difference is you can’t conveniently get very far without a car. In Paris not only can you live car-free but you can go all over the place, different countries even, by train, pretty conveniently. In the US you’ll be restricted to travel within the core of a city and that perk comes with a massive premium so it’s likely you can’t even afford it. Living car-free in the US might as well be a status symbol.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#136

Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…

In the same situation as you. Currently living with parents out in the suburbs. Plan to move later so I don't need or want a car but I'm basically stuck at home when not working. The only thing there is to do here is cycling which is relatively safe but you can't realistically get anywhere so I do it just for sport. The car culture is pretty bad in Australia as well.

Do you live in Australia? I've lived in Sydney most of my life and I've found it fairly easy to get around with public transport. I'm currently living in Melbourne and it's even better, and has much better support for bikes.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#137

Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…

I wonder if part of the success of silicon valley can be attributed to this?

In most other places you can spend your time doing interesting things all day long and never get bored. Whereas in SV you just start a business?

How many people would not have began their software ventures if there was enough comedy clubs, pubs, theaters, community centers, beaches etc a short 10mins walk from home?

Actually wondering?

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#138
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Vienna in 2010 the city decided to transform a huge shopping street into a pedestrian area. There was a lot of fuss and heated discussions. Media reported on it for months. Some people feared the proposed change will lead to fewer customers and this in turn will lead to stores having to close. Public opinion was split but leaning towards the transformation. One segment of the shopping street was kept a street as c…

But are they the same stores? It's probably fine for the landlords, but if you're leasing storespace and selling bulk/heavy goods, or something so specialized that people from afar drive to you, you're going to have trouble. If you're running a restaurant or cafe, you're in a great situation. It's a solvable issue, but it may be ignored.

This is effectively a solved issue though, isn't it? Even the given example of the Mariahilfer Str. still has road access and as per the wikipedia page "Für den Lieferverkehr ist die Zufahrt und das Halten bis 13 Uhr zulässig." (Access and halting for delivery of goods is allowed until 1pm). Any city off the top of my head with pedestrian-only inner city areas still allow delivery trucks until certain times. Since the vast majority of retailers get their goods delivered in 3.5-7.5t trucks simply because of the volume, I don't see how this is going to change. Shops still need to get their goods somehow and the last thing you want to do is strangle off clothing shops or electronic goods from your city center, leaving only restaurants and cafes. Nobody would go there anymore.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#139
Last year in the Netherlands more e-bikes were bought than regular bikes. And on average the e-bikes cost twice as much as the regular bikes. What the Dutch have discovered is that an e-bike is more of a substitute for a car rather than for a pedal bike, it's expands the range of running errands up to 10km or 15km while being more convenient and often faster than a car.

This is future of most cities worldwide sooner or later.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#140
post #137

Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…

I wonder if part of the success of silicon valley can be attributed to this? In most other places you can spend your time doing interesting things all day long and never get bored. Whereas in SV you just start a business? How many people would not have began their software ventures if there was enough comedy clubs, pubs, theaters, community centers, beaches etc a short 10mins walk from home? Actually wondering?

It's a good question, but I think if that were true, we wouldn't see many startups in places like SF and NYC, and quite a lot of them in the middle of nowhere.

For me, interactions with novel people, experiences, and ideas are a big feeder for my own ideas.

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