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The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#131

Post by buckthundaz »

manjana wrote: post #66
e40 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, cholesterol is slowly being exonerated as a villain. My primary care physician no longer orders cholesterol tests, for example. Sugar, not fat, is the real problem. And those researches that took bribes in the 60's to turn us all against fat. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-in...

The real problem is LDL cholesterol when it is combined with excess sugar. HDL cholesterol is harmless afaik. Cholesterol is not bad - your body produces way more than you ever ingest on a single day.

The root problem is hyperinsulinemia. [1] The cholesterol narrative is far, far off from being correct.

[1] - https://www.dietdoctor.com/triglycerides-and-heart-disease

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#132

Post by urban_strike »

artimaeis wrote: post #81
StacyC wrote: post #50

After five years on a ketogenic diet (low carb, higher fat) I now eat mostly fatty meat and eggs, and little else. I have never felt better or been in better health. This is anecdote, but a growing number of people are discovering the same thing. Beef is great food. It will not go away.

The Beyond Burger only contains 3g of carbs, making it perfectly acceptable for a Ketogenic diet, as far as I understand it. The Impossible burger contains more, at 9g, but that's easy to fit into most carb allowences of Keto (not many go for Even with a goal of 0g of carbs per day there's a lot of room on the plate for above-ground vegetables and natural oils. Beef is an okay food, but there's lots of alternatives t…

There's a lot more to achieving good health than macronutrient ratios.

The plant-alternatives both 1) lack the abundant, bioavailable nutrients found in animal products and 2) include a lot of highly-processed and inflammatory ingredients like seed oils.

And I think you're underselling beef by calling it an "okay" food. The meat we get from cows and other ruminants (and particularly organ meats like liver) are among THE most nutrient-dense and bioavilable foods available to humans.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#133

Post by chrisco255 »

artimaeis wrote: post #45
formalsystem wrote: post #9

I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main concern is environment I get it and go for it. But if you are claiming that plant based burgers are healthier or tastier you are borderline delusional. Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just in…

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just inject cholesterol and fast forward a heart attack. Yes, the Beyond Meat burger does have a substantial amount of canola oil. But what's this about cholesterol and heart attack risk? Canola oil is one of the healthier oils - it's low in saturated fats and high in monounsaturated fats which are shown to actual…

You made a couple of invalid claims here:

1) Canola oil is one of the healthier oils. 2) Monounsaturated fats help fight heart disease. 3) Naturally occurring trans fat is the same as industrial trans fat 4) Red meat has health risks

EDIT, included sources, with comments: [1] Canola oil may have dramatic negative effect on weight gain and brain health: "Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropathology in the triple transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3?error=dat...

[2] No clear benefits of MUFA-rich diets: "Monounsaturated Fatty Acids and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease: Synopsis of the Evidence Available from Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analyses" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546618/

[3] High trans fat intake associated with lower sudden cardiac death: "Natural trans fat, dairy fat, partially hydrogenated oils, and cardiometabolic health: the Ludwigshafen Risk and Cardiovascular Health Study" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4816962/

[4] Claims on red meat risks that are limited to epidemiological studies (surveys) that are unreliable, do not factor for confounding variables, and do not conclusively prove anything. Keto diet, for example, has shown to lower cardiovascular risk factors: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#134

Post by adventured »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #117
technotony wrote: post #22

The naysayers in the comment thread are missing the understanding that the fundamental technologies driving this are all moving exponentially. Beyond Meat's innovation came from a Stanford professor who is an expert in RNA molecules (he helped them figure out their protein structure/selection), impossible foods is a synthetic biology company. Exponential techs always underwhelm in the beginning but soon deliver more…

Exponential improvement is a very powerful lesson, for sure. Exponential increases in capability or applicability or exponential decreases in cost describe the fundamental benefit of technology. But what exactly is an exponentially superior food?

> But what exactly is an exponentially superior food?

In this case, perhaps the ability in time to produce 10x the meat ('meat') at 10% the environmental damage of our current output.

We're adding ~85-90m people per year. Most of them are going to want to eat things like beef, fish, chicken, bacon and so on. A billion new people per decade is an enormous increase in demand for meat, to say nothing of the already existing several billion people in the bottom 1/2 with rising consumer demands for meat.

It looks like we're going to be able to solve this problem and relatively soon (it will still take decades to fully scale up globally and perfect complex products, however that will occur). It's an exciting time, getting to watch the innovation and real store-worthy products just starting to take off at a consumer level.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#135

Post by buckthundaz »

geddy wrote: post #116
dashundchen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree that it's not as healthy as eating less processed plant based foods, however I don't think anyone is going to Burger King or White Castle expecting that. But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? The only places I have seen them served are in restaurants and bars alongside burgers and unhealthy bar food - which I think you might be surprised is a big chunk of many people'…

Consumption of red meat has been consistently linked to cancer, specifically of the gastrointestinal tract. The ingredients in Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers have not. In the short term, I consider them healthier because of that, but I certainly don't think that processed foods are healthy in the long term, regardless of whether or not they contain animal products. Source: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/li…

Are you sure you understand your source?

Is a real burger more processed than a Beyond Burger, what I call a 'Pea-Protein Patty'?

Suggested reading: https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond-meat-is-beyond-unheal...

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#137

Post by lxmcneill »

chrisco255 wrote: post #133
artimaeis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just inject cholesterol and fast forward a heart attack. Yes, the Beyond Meat burger does have a substantial amount of canola oil. But what's this about cholesterol and heart attack risk? Canola oil is one of the healthier oils - it's low in saturated fats and high in monounsaturated fats which are shown to actual…

You made a couple of invalid claims here: 1) Canola oil is one of the healthier oils. 2) Monounsaturated fats help fight heart disease. 3) Naturally occurring trans fat is the same as industrial trans fat 4) Red meat has health risks EDIT, included sources, with comments: [1] Canola oil may have dramatic negative effect on weight gain and brain health: "Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropat…

Would either of you please be so kind as to cite your sources?

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#139

Post by urban_strike »

mythrwy wrote: post #79
dreamcompiler wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA said it: "America gets 97 percent of its beef from feedlots." Here's another one: https://www.reference.com/pets-animals/cows-eat-a677816334f1...

So they go through the feedlots but most cattle are not in the feedlot at once (feedlots are a smaller part of the time a cow is alive, some months only). The largest number of cattle, currently, if you counted them all up, are still on pasture. Not that this detracts from your point, mostly a minor semantic quibble.

I think it's a pretty huge point that's overlooked, not just a quibble.

If a group of kids were fed healthy, home-made meals all week and then get a piece of chocolate cake on Sunday night, it's clearly misleading to say "100% of these children were raised on chocolate cake!".

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#140

Post by eMSF »

artimaeis wrote: post #45
formalsystem wrote: post #9

I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main concern is environment I get it and go for it. But if you are claiming that plant based burgers are healthier or tastier you are borderline delusional. Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just in…

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just inject cholesterol and fast forward a heart attack. Yes, the Beyond Meat burger does have a substantial amount of canola oil. But what's this about cholesterol and heart attack risk? Canola oil is one of the healthier oils - it's low in saturated fats and high in monounsaturated fats which are shown to actual…

>It's terribly unhealthy, and the risks associated with the consumption of red meat are well known.

They aren't, really. Of course, in the circle, none of this matters.

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