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You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

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Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#131

Post by scarface74 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #43
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

> I don't want to be forced to trust every company with my credit card information This problem is solved with Paypal.

You haven’t heard about all of the issues with PayPal for over decade?

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#132

Post by arendtio »

fhood wrote: post #19

As an end user I approve of the walled garden. I don't mind the limitations on other forms of payment. I think it helps prevent fraud and insecure transactions, and I like the freedom and ease of use that comes with knowing that apps on the ios store went through a fairly substantial review process. As a developer (though it has been a few years since I wrote code for mobile) Apple's tools, documentation and librarie…

As an end-user, I don't trust that 'fairly substantial review process'. There have been so many stories about apps collecting data that is not in the interest of the user, that I trust apps from F-Droid much easier than apps from the large App-Stores.

Sounds a bit irrational, but I don't think it is (at least at the moment).

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#133

Post by Brendinooo »

It's worth going back to the App Store reveal video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo9cKe_Fch8

30% might be high, and there's certainly a case to be made for conflict of interest in the Netflix/Spotify arena, but the App Store is solving a lot of problems: it's a single, universal way to get an app out to every iThing, it manages updates, and there's no nickel-and-diming in terms of processing fees or hosting or anything like that.

I thought it was in that keynote but maybe not: I remember someone comparing a 30% cut to the costs associated with getting a physical copy onto retail shelf, and if I recall correctly it was in the same universe.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#134

Post by nerdjon »

writepub wrote: post #117
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

It's interesting that you cited retail. In retail, there's an actual cost to stocking items, especially in areas visible to the customer. No such cost exists on the app store, in fact Apple makes you pay extra to advertise for what retailers offer for their 30%. App stores and retailers are different. There's almost no cost to list an app (for Apple, Google) and yet they charge a 30% fee. Apple, especially, is a text…

Almost no cost except:

- Credit card processing fees

- Hosting the content (yes minimal but can't be ignored)

- Approval process (the people)

- "Editors" that create the curated lists every day

- Developer support hours (technically you get with the yearly subscription but I doubt that actually covers the cost of those hours).

- The engineers building the developer tools (Xcode, the developer portal, TestFlight, etc)

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#135

Post by ubercow13 »

moksly wrote: post #32
FerretFred wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be happy, but now, not so much due to the increasing trend of subscriptions. Yes I know developers have a living to make, but when you end up potentially paying $50 a year for an SSH client it no longer works for me. Why not charge a realistic one-time fee for an app and then I'll gladly pay.

Does this have anything to do with Apple and their walled garden though? To me it sounds more like a business opportunity to make a SSH client and sell it at a realistic one-time fee to people like you (and me by the way) who are sick of subscriptions. But can’t that be done within he current ecosystem?

One issue is that apps seem to require much more ongoing maintenance just to continue working on iOS. Most of the Windows software I bought 10 or even 20 years ago would probably still work on my current PC, but apps I bought only a few years ago are no longer working for me or have become unavailable on the app store because the developer stopped putting in continuous effort to keep up with iOS.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#136

Post by ekc »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #122
wheelerwj wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does it mean for our society if a single company has control over what that computer can display? this is literally every major OS right now.... Mac, iOS, Android, Chromium, Windows.... > I think it's analogous to free speech. what? no it isn't. these are proprietary, private sector companies who fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, not government entities.

> this is literally every major OS right now.... Mac, iOS, Android, Chromium, Windows.... No it's not! I can run whatever software I want on Windows, Mac, Android and Chromium. > these are proprietary, private sector companies who fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders, not government entities. I am not accusing Apple of literally breaking the first amendment. I do, however, think their actions have consequ…

> No it's not! I can run whatever software I want on Windows, Mac, Android and Chromium.

Just as you can on Safari!

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#137

Post by dangus »

LanceH wrote: post #53
dangus wrote: post #29

I had a while ago calculated the actual download cost with S3's pricing on what each ~100MB Spotify update would cost if it was self hosted. Assuming each paid and free Spotify customer on the iOS platform updated the app was something to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars depending on how you estimate the marketshare of iOS for Spotify versus their other platforms. What the App Store provides is not valueless,…

The value is that Apple allows distribution. Distribution could be handled any number of ways for considerably less. It is only valuable (especially at 30%) because it is the only one allowed.

One might say the same thing about any retail store - that distribution of my product could be done considerably less than what that store is asking for. But the whole calculation is that the value of distributing somewhere is weighed against the opportunity cost of not distributing there.

Apple's < 20% global marketshare isn't anywhere near enough to make the assertion that customers don't have alternatives.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#138

Post by _ph_ »

_ph_ wrote: post #61
alunchbox wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? (similar situation to Steam but at least their development tools are nearly bug free, and really help development) The problem here is that they also charge 100 or $50 just to start developing on their platform...

There is no charge to start development for iOS. The tools are available for any Mac owner.

Sorry, this time I really don't get the downvotes. Did I say anything incorrect? If so, please correct me. If not, why am I downvoted?

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#139

Post by lukifer »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #87
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

I wish game consoles were open, but I don't care as much because they're single purpose. A PS4 is not designed to be your primary computer. An iPhone, by contrast, will be many people's primary or even they're only computer. What does it mean for our society if a single company has control over what that computer can display? I see this issue as broader than just competition—I think it's analogous to free speech.

There is a moral/philosophical connection to free speech and the app store pseudo-monopolies (code as speech), but it also happens to be very concrete in Apple's case: you literally cannot tell customers through your app what other alternatives might be used to pay you.

(And before someone comments about how this doesn't conflict with the 1st Amendment, you are obviously correct; but free speech is as much a societal value as a legal construct, and is not limited to the Bill of Rights as its sole champion.)

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#140

Post by y_molodtsov »

pathartl wrote: post #111
693471 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone trust PayPal? They still owe me $900 from 2005 when I was the victim of a reverse scam. (Buyer claimed i scammed and never sent it; they refused to investigate or accept my tracking info as proof)

To me this just verifies that diversity is better than uniformity in these scenarios. That's fine if you don't trust PayPal because of your own experiences, but why should we be forced to use Apple Pay?

Nobody forces you to use Apple Pay.
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