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GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

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Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#131

Post by image72834 »

sethammons wrote: post #48
wickerman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US: actively developing weapons of mass destruction. Has committed several war crimes and illegally occupied territories in the middle east. Actively funded and continues to fund international terrorism. Israel: ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories in Palestine. Yet Crimea, Syria and Iran are the bad guys (btw Iran was funded by the US - yes same regime that now the US cries against).

Ignorant here; how has the US illegally occupied territories in the middle east? Illegal under which jurisdiction? For an invading force, there would be only potential jurisdictions, no? International and/or their own. If it were International, the US would face sanctions. If it were illegal under US law, how could it persist?

Start by reading some history. You can watch some of Noam Chomsky's lectures about US and its role in the Middle East and other parts of the world.

US has the upper hand in many political matters, and they force their allies to agree with them, even if they don't want to, (of course they benefit from it too). Why do they have the upper hand? Because of their technological advantages and resources. Since you are an ignorant, you'd probably say, of course, US is advanced and they do good and bad with it. Of course, but then read a bit more and you arrive at one of the very dark corners of history, slavery. Then, apply your logic, "how has the US illegally took so many people as slave in all over the world? Illegal under which jurisdiction? For that being consider as slavery, there would be only potential jurisdictions, no? International and/or their own. If it were International, the US would face sanctions. If it were illegal under US law, how could it persist?" (Quoting you while adjusting your logic to slavery)

Ok, now draw an example from today's world. Just look at the current Iran's deal and how US is ignoring the rest of the world. As far as I know, this is the first time that EU ever slightly has decided to -- publicly -- face US and stick to the deal. This is an exception only because Trump is _Trump_ and doesn't seem to respect anything, including EU, and EU had enough of him (and worked hard for the deal). However, if Trump was not as blunt about the whole situation and would have approached it differently, both EU and US probably dismantle the deal and escalate everything easily. Why? Because EU would have been convinced/forced, by a rather more rational US president, to get out of the deal. Again, look back at history, and you'll see that's what happened at Afghanistan and Iraq wars too.

Long story...

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#132

Post by sgift »

dijit wrote: post #127
chriswwweb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't! The sanction is against the country, not nationals. So if you are a developer from the U.S. with U.S. nationality and move to Cuba the sanctions would also apply to you. Actually there is a very good wikipedia page "United States sanctions against Iran" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_sanctions_agains... about this, if you want more info.

I don't mean to be flippant, but it will sound this way. I trust Oracles lawyers to know the law better than a wikipedia page. http://www.oracle.com/us/products/export/export-regulations-...

Oracles lawyers and Githubs lawyers then disagree cause Githubs CEO stated the same thing as the GP: They block people based on location, not on nationality. If you are banned but not in one of the banned locations you can fill out a form to get unblocked:

https://twitter.com/natfriedman/status/1155311123467399168

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#133

Post by zbentley »

tandem_bike wrote: post #49
tomohawk wrote: post #23

Crimea: Illegal occupation by Russia. Ethnic cleansing. Syria: Using chemical weapons, sponsoring terrorism Iran: Assisting Syria; Actively developing nukes they say they will use, nuclear proliferation, biggest sponsor of terrorism, .... On the other hand, some people can't use an internet service. Oh! The inhumanity! Get a sense of proportion.

The anti-US ideology is strong here, and it's a losing battle speaking reason to ideologues. The ideology is rooted in something I am sympathetic to, even though I am very pro-US. Many here and elsewhere on the internet are either not from the US, or - if they are US citizens - do not personally identify with the power-elite that they feel controls the nation, or with the majority of citizens that comprise the nation…

That argument is disturbingly convenient: it lets you dismiss any evidence-based criticism of US policy as "biased, ignoring the good parts, criticism is inevitable because it's the most powerful country in the world" . . . Without actually engaging with any evidence to the contrary.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#134

Post by miracle2k »

jlengrand wrote: post #18
yuchi wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://about.gitlab.com/2018/07/19/gcp-move-update/

Yes, thanks!

Note that this is not quite the same. Gitlab made a technical decision to move to Google Cloud, and Google Cloud has its own, much more outrageous block on a network level.

Gitlab not being accessible from Iran is a by-product of that move, not a conscious decision Gitlab made.

Arguably, if I create a Gitlab Account using a VPN but put country of residence "Iran", and Gitlab lets me do that, then Gitlab does not have the same policy has Github.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#135

Post by sgift »

meddlepal wrote: post #124
cdmckay wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that sanctions also kill people through lack of supplies like medicine being available, people being unable to economically support themselves, and, if the sanctions cause the government to collapse, all the death that results from that. So let’s not pretend sanctions are somehow nonviolent.

It's relatively easy to avoid sanctions in the first place or have them removed: comply with US demands. Most of the world does this just fine. There's a few bad actors out there screwing their countries and their people.

"What do you mean the bully hurt you? Just give him your sandwich next time!"

The US is a school bully, nothing more. Unfortunately, the EU doesn't have the guts to tell them to pound sand. Instead they tell Iran they will help and do nothing to enforce it.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#136

Post by namirez »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #89
wickerman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of harassment that citizens of any state that the US claims to hate at any given time endure on a daily basis is disgusting. Exiled iranians living outside of Iran for 20 years have got their bank accounts closed solely for being Iranian. I can't help but think that these internet services will be going that way in the future. The fact that the "free software" community is not putting their foot down for t…

Ya know what was actually disgusting? The war in Iraq, or any other recent regime change the US executed. If economic warfare is the way it’s done now, then that’s great. Let the casualties be inconvenienced github users, rather than ya know, actual casualties...

False dichotomy! Economic sanctions are not the only alternative to actual wars. In fact, they are a form of collective punishment that harm average citizens of these countries more than their governments. And this is not just about some inconvenienced github users; this has been a contentious issue in every natural disaster [1].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-floods-redcrescent/f...

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#137

Post by dsfyu404ed »

cdmckay wrote: post #98
AmericanChopper wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya know what was actually disgusting? The war in Iraq, or any other recent regime change the US executed. If economic warfare is the way it’s done now, then that’s great. Let the casualties be inconvenienced github users, rather than ya know, actual casualties...

You realize that sanctions also kill people through lack of supplies like medicine being available, people being unable to economically support themselves, and, if the sanctions cause the government to collapse, all the death that results from that. So let’s not pretend sanctions are somehow nonviolent.

Everything that reduces quality of life kills people in some way. Heck, I commute through a town that back in the day was rich enough to prevent the highway from being expanded. I bet a couple people have died in ambulances in gridlock there.

Sanctions are a heck of a lot less violent than bombs, or some tit for tat response (which would probably eventually escalate to bombs). They're basically one step up from taxes/tariffs.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#138

Post by patrickaljord »

sorenjan wrote: post #78
tandem_bike wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-US ideology is strong here, and it's a losing battle speaking reason to ideologues. The ideology is rooted in something I am sympathetic to, even though I am very pro-US. Many here and elsewhere on the internet are either not from the US, or - if they are US citizens - do not personally identify with the power-elite that they feel controls the nation, or with the majority of citizens that comprise the nation…

[flagged]

FYI, Obama started more wars and bombed more countries than Bush and Trump.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#139

Post by mugsie »

miracle2k wrote: post #128
mugsie wrote: post #80

The US trade restrictions are pretty far reaching. They block companies trading with countries and companies on entity list . It also bans US companies from dealing with companies that deal with countries and companies on the list. So let us look at this: 1. GitHub becomes a Maltese company. 2. GitHub allows Iranian users to use all features 3. No US company could buy a GitHub Enterprise licence, or a private org. Th…

That's not true. There are already many non-US companies who are providing services to Iran in the same sense that Github is providing services, and those companies are also having US clients, proving that it can be done. Now, if a Maltese-Github were specifically designated by OFAC, then sure. But that's fairly unlikely.

> and those companies are also having US clients, proving that it can be done.

Proving they haven't been caught, or may not even know about the US Dept of Commerce entity list.

Re: GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea

#140

Post by 7Z7 »

zelon88 wrote: post #118
wickerman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of harassment that citizens of any state that the US claims to hate at any given time endure on a daily basis is disgusting. Exiled iranians living outside of Iran for 20 years have got their bank accounts closed solely for being Iranian. I can't help but think that these internet services will be going that way in the future. The fact that the "free software" community is not putting their foot down for t…

While I believe in the GNU definition of free software, how are we to maintain a community that's truly open-source when the parties you speak of don't believe in free software themselves? Are we really to give them the best our world has to offer so they can use it to suppress people and act against their interests? Do we let them use our libraries and tools to make their world smaller for their citizens? Do we let…

This is a pretty gross generalisation of the people and issues at stake. "We" the individual freedom loving, contributors. "They", the rogue nations using open source software to oppress and enslave.

Honestly it boggles my mind how easily you slipped into that mentality in response to the comment you replied to - a comment describing people caught in the crossfire, affected by the choices of nations at war, individual liberties crushed by sanctions and foreign policy.

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