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To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

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Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#131

Post by harryf »

noahl wrote: post #61

Okay, this is a relatively serious proposal to require Google to allow API access to its search index, with the premise that it would democratize the search engine ecosystem. There are some issues with the regulations he proposes (you have to allow throttling to prevent DDoS attacks, and you can't let anyone with API access add content to prevent garbage results), but it's roughly feasible. The main problem is, I thi…

Via API access you'd be effectively getting access to the index _plus_ the derivative search quality improvements _based on_ user data, even if you're not getting user data itself. That would certainly open the door to competition, especially on a niche basis e.g. you want to build a platform dedicated to drones - you can combine drone reviews and news with videos plus e-commerce results. The result could be awesome in sparking all kinds of small business building on Google's API.

> 2) 20 years of experience fighting SEO spam.

That's probably a key issue here though. Providing an API potentially makes it easier for spammers to identify ways to boost their content in a well automated manner.

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#132

Post by celticmusic »

taf2 wrote: post #110
celticmusic wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah yes, the only reason you could ever have for being anti google, et al, is that you want to lie... You started with a decent premise, that google isn't an actual monopoly because it has "competitors" (and yes, those quotes are intentional). But then you go off the deep end and completely lost me to the point that I didn't even finish the entirety of your post. There are many many reasons that someone could be again…

Where do you see their absolute market dominance... I checked here for example http://gs.statcounter.com/ and for browsers globally it's 63% that's not a monopoly... I checked here https://www.statista.com/statistics/216573/worldwide-market-... for search engine and 90% is pretty close but it's not a monopoly... contrast that with MS in the late 90s according to https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/13/mic…

Google doesn't have market dominance in the same way that Verizon doesn't have market dominance in a specific region because you can also get dialup.

Technically correct, but not truthful.

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#133

Post by bryanrasmussen »

noahl wrote: post #61

Okay, this is a relatively serious proposal to require Google to allow API access to its search index, with the premise that it would democratize the search engine ecosystem. There are some issues with the regulations he proposes (you have to allow throttling to prevent DDoS attacks, and you can't let anyone with API access add content to prevent garbage results), but it's roughly feasible. The main problem is, I thi…

well considering the complaints I read about Google's search quality going down for users on HN all the time I have a theory that highly technical users are adversely effected by the search improvements so an improved search engine targeting that group would essentially be one searching on what you typed.

I also happen to think that is the search engine I would prefer. I think I could build that pretty quick if I had the api access.

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#134

Post by b_tterc_p »

i_cant_speel wrote: post #119
rocgf wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, 15% unique searches is indeed quite an interesting figure. With that said, what OP said is definitely not disproved. Just because 15% of searches are unique, that doesn't mean the most relevant result is buried in the tail end. I mean I can think of loads of my own searches that are probably unique or rare, but lead to the same popular results because of typos, improper wording etc. Without some clear numbers on…

Especially with voice searches. People are searching entire sentences rather than specific keywords which are much more likely to be unique.

Do people do this?

Or do you mean queries forwarded by home assistants trying to parse inputs?

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#136

Post by epicide »

samscully wrote: post #93
ailideex wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t see any mention in this article of what seems like the most obvious way to split up Google, separating their search and ad businesses. What would be the revenue model for their search then?

The ad business would pay the search business for ad placement. The search business would also be free to auction ad space to other providers.

> The search business would also be free to auction ad space to other providers.

Doesn't that make them an ad business?

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#137

Post by luckylion »

noahl wrote: post #61

Okay, this is a relatively serious proposal to require Google to allow API access to its search index, with the premise that it would democratize the search engine ecosystem. There are some issues with the regulations he proposes (you have to allow throttling to prevent DDoS attacks, and you can't let anyone with API access add content to prevent garbage results), but it's roughly feasible. The main problem is, I thi…

Since the author compares the proposed API to what startpage.com does, I'm guessing he's not talking about "index" as in "raw documents", but basically Search as an API with all the sorting and ranking done.

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#138

Post by briandear »

nova22033 wrote: post #106

Caveat: The author is not a technologists Robert Epstein (born June 19, 1953) is an American psychologist, professor, author, and journalist. He earned his Ph.D. in psychology at Harvard University in 1981, was editor in chief of Psychology Today, He has also made some questionable claims about google manipulating search results to favor Hillary Clinton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Epstein#cite_note-15 His r…

> He has also made some questionable claims about google manipulating search results to favor Hillary Clinton.

Despite it being off topic, can we define why those claims are questionable? Is their data proving those claims wrong? Because with all the Google political controversies over the past few years, and given the political donation history of Google employees, it’s highly plausible that search results are manipulated to favor certain politics over others.

If the “questionable claims” have been disproven or are inaccurate, then it would seem that you’d provide some proof. Essentially, it you are to claim the search engine was not biased towards Clinton, certainly there would be some proof of that? It’s more reasonable to suspect Google manipulating search engines than not, given the political environment at Google.

The real “questionable claim” is that Google is neutral in any way — which is kind of the entire premise of the article. If Google were completely neutral, then why would their monopoly on search need to be broken?

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#139

Post by gerash »

taf2 wrote: post #54

So although everyone likes to believe google is a monopoly it’s far from it. You have choices- bing, biadu , yandex, DuckDuckGo... there is also nothing about googles search position that prevents you from building a competitor. What we do have is peter thiel backing an administration that’s anti google, Russia, China that are anti google. Why? it’s a source of truth that challenges their lies. We also have an emerge…

Peter thiel was recently speaking at a conservative whatever in DC spreading nonsense and creating a bogeyman out of Google (but not FB obviously). That they're working on some evil AI. Anyone actually working in the field knows how blown out of proportion and cringy this AI doomsday narrative is but people like thiel don't waste a chance. I'd like someone to tell his Republican audience (pardon the stereotyping) that he is homosexual and recently obtained a New Zealand citizenship just in case. Then watch how his audience reacts.

Re: To Break Google’s Monopoly on Search, Make Its Index Public

#140

Post by drevil-v2 »

tomweingarten wrote: post #124
nova22033 wrote: post #106

Caveat: The author is not a technologists Robert Epstein (born June 19, 1953) is an American psychologist, professor, author, and journalist. He earned his Ph.D. in psychology at Harvard University in 1981, was editor in chief of Psychology Today, He has also made some questionable claims about google manipulating search results to favor Hillary Clinton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Epstein#cite_note-15 His r…

The comments he made are not just questionable, they're outright wrong (and a great example of the problem with cherry-picking data): https://www.vox.com/2016/6/10/11903028/hillary-clinton-googl... https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/jun/23... (Disclosure: I work at Google, but this opinion is my own)

Speaking of cherry picking, I wouldn't use vox as reliable source for bipartisan data.
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