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Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

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Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#131

Post by rhino369 »

paulsutter wrote: post #119
rhino369 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese tourists are considered some of the most rude and dirty, and China is a collectivist society. I think it’s just a problem with tourism.

“are considered”? This is a ridiculous stereotype. I’ve seen Chinese travelers around the world and they’re as sophisticated as anyone

It's certainly a generalization, but I'm not sure how to talk "societies" (per the post I was responding to) without generalizing. So it's definitely a stereotype, but I don't think it is an unearned stereotype. And like all generalizations, it not accurate on a person by person basis.

Just look at what China did to its own environment to get a sense of how much that society values the environment.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#132

Post by ajmurmann »

mijamo wrote: post #78
CptFribble wrote: post #67

After the volcano erupted in 2010, the government launched a PR campaign in winter 2011 to counter the projected tourism drop. It specifically targeted "inspired" and "enlightened" travelers to come see the "unique" landscape. Also in 2011, WOWair debuted with it's $99 flights to Iceland. Instagram launched in 2010. Maybe it's less "people are garbage" and more "we should make it more expensive to come here."

Iceland is pretty damn expensive, probably one of the most expensive nature destination you can find, together with Norway (although Switzerland probably still wins the prize).

Food there has gotten really expensive the last few years. Getting there can be really cheap though. I've now spent two Thanksgivings there where we paid less than $1k/person for flights from US west coast and a very good hotel for 3 nights.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#133

Post by [deleted] »

rhino369 wrote: post #115
ixtli wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that the root issue is individualism. There are immaculately clean cities in east asia whos parent societies would definitely qualify as highly "consumerist." It's not consumption that's the problem but the parameters within which that consumption is allowed to proceed. As well, in individualist societies we seem far more comfortable to discard our trash wherever and just forget about it. A more collectivist a…

Chinese tourists are considered some of the most rude and dirty, and China is a collectivist society. I think it’s just a problem with tourism.

[deleted]

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#134

Post by philliphaydon »

whatshisface wrote: post #111
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grandparent is probably pointing to Singapore. That is a state that is infamous for being extremely clean and tidy. At the same time, it is highly consumerist, with so much of its traditional community infrastructure demolished and replaced with shopping malls.

Don't the massive government penalties for littering have something to do with it? It turns out that, yes, after all, laws and punishment do act as a deterrent.

Yes. It works in Singapore. In places like japan and Taiwan though, they have much more respect for their country. Even Thailand. In Phuket I’ve seen the locals who live off tourism on the beaches picking up rubbish the tourists leave behind. Never see that sort of thing in the west. Malaysia and Myanmar however they just throw it out the window as they drive.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#135

Post by kerblang »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #33

“The relatively new trouble with mass society is perhaps even more serious, but not because of the masses themselves, but because this society is essentially a consumers’ society where leisure time is used no longer for self-perfection or acquisition of more social status, but for more and more consumption and more and more entertainment… To believe that such a society will become more “cultured” as time goes on and…

> where leisure time is used no longer for self-perfection or acquisition of more social status

My understanding of these instagram folk is that it's definitely about social status and very often about making money. "Influencer" is a career. Maybe if Iceland offered to promote these influencers' work in exchange for good behavior, some concept of mutual benefit could be worked out.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#136

Post by jshowa3 »

lm28469 wrote: post #91
ixtli wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that the root issue is individualism. There are immaculately clean cities in east asia whos parent societies would definitely qualify as highly "consumerist." It's not consumption that's the problem but the parameters within which that consumption is allowed to proceed. As well, in individualist societies we seem far more comfortable to discard our trash wherever and just forget about it. A more collectivist a…

> There are immaculately clean cities in east asia Isn't it because they have armies of cleaning people in the streets ? A friend of mine told me about it, I think he was in South Korea, Seoul perhaps, at the time. He told me people mostly act the same but their cities are more efficient at cleaning the mess before it piles up. I don't know if there are other laws similar to that [0] but it probably explain some beha…

I've frequented China quite a lot the past year. They usually have people that clean the streets regularly as part of their job. They often hall two wheel carts around to carry their equipment and large brush that has fallen from trees.

However, I don't think Chinese do a great job of separating their trash that well despite having recycle bins and trash bins clearly labeled on the streets.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#137

Post by lotsofpulp »

gwbas1c wrote: post #84
CptFribble wrote: post #67

After the volcano erupted in 2010, the government launched a PR campaign in winter 2011 to counter the projected tourism drop. It specifically targeted "inspired" and "enlightened" travelers to come see the "unique" landscape. Also in 2011, WOWair debuted with it's $99 flights to Iceland. Instagram launched in 2010. Maybe it's less "people are garbage" and more "we should make it more expensive to come here."

It seems that social media is the scapegoat of the day for whatever social problem the media discusses.

It's very relevant for a discussion related to the impacts of travel and tourism.

A person's pictures showing how and where they travel is a very good indicator of their socioeconomic status since it's hard to fake, and so is a valuable part of signaling status, which many people may find useful for dating and otherwise going about their social lives.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#138

Post by donkeyd »

sillyquiet wrote: post #5

I call this the 'Disney World' effect of nature tourism. Self-involved, entitled people who treat national parks and the wilderness like an amusement park that has been set aside for their entertainment. They expect the natural world to cater to their whims the same way a Disney world employee does, and they just do not understand that's not how the world works.

The first time I experienced this in nature was last year in Yosemite. So many people were climbing over barriers and walking in places where they shouldn't, it was horrible.

I've experienced this a lot in Amsterdam too, however. Tourists are treating Amsterdam like it isn't a real city. Especially the British seem to have no respect and treat Amsterdam like it's Vegas, but with less American cops.

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#139

Post by JoelMcCracken »

kerblang wrote: post #135
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #33

“The relatively new trouble with mass society is perhaps even more serious, but not because of the masses themselves, but because this society is essentially a consumers’ society where leisure time is used no longer for self-perfection or acquisition of more social status, but for more and more consumption and more and more entertainment… To believe that such a society will become more “cultured” as time goes on and…

> where leisure time is used no longer for self-perfection or acquisition of more social status My understanding of these instagram folk is that it's definitely about social status and very often about making money. "Influencer" is a career. Maybe if Iceland offered to promote these influencers' work in exchange for good behavior, some concept of mutual benefit could be worked out.

Or throw them in jail/fine them to fund better protecting natural resources?

Re: Iceland tire of tourists trashing their nature

#140

Post by tempodox »

kerblang wrote: post #135
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #33

“The relatively new trouble with mass society is perhaps even more serious, but not because of the masses themselves, but because this society is essentially a consumers’ society where leisure time is used no longer for self-perfection or acquisition of more social status, but for more and more consumption and more and more entertainment… To believe that such a society will become more “cultured” as time goes on and…

> where leisure time is used no longer for self-perfection or acquisition of more social status My understanding of these instagram folk is that it's definitely about social status and very often about making money. "Influencer" is a career. Maybe if Iceland offered to promote these influencers' work in exchange for good behavior, some concept of mutual benefit could be worked out.

I appreciate the businesslike hacker approach but paying inconsiderate assholes so they behave less like inconsiderate assholes doesn't sound like a great idea.
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