I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today • Hacker News Board

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#131

Post by jstanley » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #115

Stronico wrote: post #110

When interviewing people I usually push until I get the candidate to answer "I don't know" on SOMETHING, just to see if they can do it. Not everyone can, and a lot of people will happily come up with a technical word salad to hide their perfectly understandable ignorance on some obscure technical problem I just came up with. That way you get to hear how they ask technical questions. Asking questions is a valuable (an…

That's a trick question. Trick questions are bad because they test interviewing skill and not programming skill. It's a trick question because you want the interviewee to answer something different (I don't know) than what you're asking them to answer. Confident applicants might feel up to saying they don't know, but nervous people who are very self conscious in an interview setting may respond completely differently…

It's not quite the same as a trick question (which I agree you should avoid). He's not looking for the interviewee to say "I don't know" to any particular question. The correct answer is a perfectly acceptable answer too. The unacceptable answer is to make up bullshit, which is precisely what he's trying to filter out.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#132

Post by malvosenior » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

Stronico wrote: post #127

malvosenior wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing this during a job interview is not going to give you the results you expect. For every person like you who wants to hear "I don't know" there are 10 people who will pass on you for not knowing something. People's expectations are set by the worst interviewers they experience, not the best (and honestly, trying to trap people isn't the "best" anyway).

So far it's worked very well for me. Since I've started using it (admittedly my sample size is small) I've found some very effective programmers, and automatically filtered out a lot of egotistical types. Software is usually a collaborative effort and this technique helps in that regard.

As another commenter mentioned, you're probably doing more damage than you realize. A lot of more experienced people are going to recognize this as toxic behavior and word will get out that your company isn't healthy. You may not even notice, but this kind of thing will keep the best people out of your pipeline if you continue to do it.

> Since I've started using it (admittedly my sample size is small) I've found some very effective programmers,

This is not the only way to find very effective programmers. You should level up your own ability to discovery this in someone in a non antagonistic and more straightforward manner.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#133

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

kache_ wrote: post #126

The reason that people still ask algorithmic questions is because they work for avoiding false positives. False positives are a lot more damaging to a company compared to false negatives. While algorithmic questions can get many false negatives, they don't get much false positives. What does it mean for a software developer? Spend a few hours a week doing leetcode questions. They're really not that hard.

[deleted]

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#134

Post by andrei_says_ » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

kache_ wrote: post #126

The reason that people still ask algorithmic questions is because they work for avoiding false positives. False positives are a lot more damaging to a company compared to false negatives. While algorithmic questions can get many false negatives, they don't get much false positives. What does it mean for a software developer? Spend a few hours a week doing leetcode questions. They're really not that hard.

Surely urgent care nurses can spend time prepping for dental assistant interview questions, but they usually don’t because ER interviewers don’t go on irrelevant tangents.

Suggesting that they do would not address a glitch in the interviewing process but rather try to accommodate it at the cost of the interviewees’ time.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#135

Post by coleifer » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

kache_ wrote: post #126

The reason that people still ask algorithmic questions is because they work for avoiding false positives. False positives are a lot more damaging to a company compared to false negatives. While algorithmic questions can get many false negatives, they don't get much false positives. What does it mean for a software developer? Spend a few hours a week doing leetcode questions. They're really not that hard.

Yeah, I studied for an interview and it paid off huge. Just treat it like a cs exam and you'll be fine.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#136

Post by wool_gather » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #115

Stronico wrote: post #110

When interviewing people I usually push until I get the candidate to answer "I don't know" on SOMETHING, just to see if they can do it. Not everyone can, and a lot of people will happily come up with a technical word salad to hide their perfectly understandable ignorance on some obscure technical problem I just came up with. That way you get to hear how they ask technical questions. Asking questions is a valuable (an…

That's a trick question. Trick questions are bad because they test interviewing skill and not programming skill. It's a trick question because you want the interviewee to answer something different (I don't know) than what you're asking them to answer. Confident applicants might feel up to saying they don't know, but nervous people who are very self conscious in an interview setting may respond completely differently…

You make a fair point, but an interview is not solely about programming skill. It's also about being a co-worker. And the question "what does this person do in X situation", where X is "they don't know the answer to something they need to know'" is highly relevant. So there may be a better way to go about it, but the parent's desire is reasonable.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#137

Post by bcp2384 » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

I am a recent graduate of a well known bootcamp in SF, and impressed there are a decent number of graduates from last 2-3 cohorts that have landed jobs at Google. The only trick is knowing how to land an interview in the first place. If you can do that, succeeding at the technical interview can be easily taught/learned.

I think it's great that the interview process is so learnable. Why wouldn't you be happy knowing pretty much what to expect going in when for most roles that isn't the case at all?

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#138

Post by mondoshawan » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

Stronico wrote: post #127

malvosenior wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing this during a job interview is not going to give you the results you expect. For every person like you who wants to hear "I don't know" there are 10 people who will pass on you for not knowing something. People's expectations are set by the worst interviewers they experience, not the best (and honestly, trying to trap people isn't the "best" anyway).

So far it's worked very well for me. Since I've started using it (admittedly my sample size is small) I've found some very effective programmers, and automatically filtered out a lot of egotistical types. Software is usually a collaborative effort and this technique helps in that regard.

I've done well over 200+ interviews myself, and been on hiring committees where I have had chances to review other interviews. This kind of behavior usually trashes the following ones and aets the candidate up for failure.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#139

Post by notyourwork » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:01 PM UTC

mondoshawan wrote: post #128

Stronico wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "I don't know" is an accurate answer. The ability to ask meaningful questions is a big part of any programming job. And (in my opinion) harder to learn than any particular technology.

Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. If you want to see them ask questions, give a half explanation of the problem at hand instead and guide them to ask more detailed technical questions. Be an ally, not an adversary, and you will find talent better than if you push.

It’s really not - as someone whose done 100s of interviews for a brand name tech company I don’t see this as a problem. The goal being for candidate to indicate their lack of knowledge but work through it. As an engineer you will encounter problems you don’t know how to solve. Pretending you know and bullshitting is a red flag.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#140

Post by collyw » Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

coleifer wrote: post #135

kache_ wrote: post #126

The reason that people still ask algorithmic questions is because they work for avoiding false positives. False positives are a lot more damaging to a company compared to false negatives. While algorithmic questions can get many false negatives, they don't get much false positives. What does it mean for a software developer? Spend a few hours a week doing leetcode questions. They're really not that hard.

Yeah, I studied for an interview and it paid off huge. Just treat it like a cs exam and you'll be fine.

I did that nearly 20 years ago. Why do I need to do it now?