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US demands social media details from visa applicants

bbc.com

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Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#131

Post by khuey »

jorblumesea wrote: post #108
godelski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. I don't think it is black and white. While I'd say that there are isolationist aspects it isn't like how China has been (probably deserved considering the British). There's definitely a scale. We clearly aren't North Korea, which is what people think of when they think of an isolationist country. But I also can't think of a country that isn't at least a little isolationist. So I wouldn't say that isolatio…

I don't think you understand, the US has a long and well established history of this, even to the point of formal political policies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_non-intervention... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Doctrine_of_Unstabl...

It's been pretty thoroughly suppressed since December 7th, 1941.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#132

Post by bloopernova »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #104
godelski wrote: post #80

This seems isolationist. Why would we want to isolate ourselves? For a country that was founded upon immigrants, that extremely benefited (and continues to) from diversity of thought and ideas, why would we want to stop that? I'm just under 30 and I still remember growing up how I was told that a major part of what made America great was the melting pot. In academia and at labs I've seen this be a huge benefit. But I…

Nativism is a reaction to the decline of the middle classes prospects. Half of America is not doing well and has been overlooked. The better educated amongst us are blinded by their own progress and weren’t looking inward. We will see more focus on nativist policies in our lifetime as automation continues to eat jobs.

Correct. A lot of people wanted an "outsider" and to "drain the swamp". In other words they don't feel represented by their elected officials, or treated fairly by the government, and they want things to change.

Despite this desire being co-opted and twisted by Trump's campaign and Fox News, the underlying feelings are valid for a lot of people across the USA.

The Democratic party should have realized this back during Obama's "Hope" campaign. A message of change, of saying "what's happening right now isn't right and we need to fix that", that message really resonates with a lot of people.

Of course, as Obama found out when he became president, "the swamp" has its own interests at heart. All that good energy and hope broke like a wave against that huge political cliff, and had far less impact than everyone needed.

If you ask a lot of people to articulate this sort of feeling, they'll have difficulty. Hence the easier to understand populist rhetoric coming from Trump. He steered that behemoth of public opinion towards xenophobia and other negative feelings. It's easier to blame the other than to look deeply at your own life.

The Democratic party has to understand this or Trump will easily win his second term. Back when Trump got the Republican nomination, I had a deeply unsettling gut feeling about the election. Trump was entertaining, Clinton was not. In the same way, Obama was entertaining, McCain was not. Bush was entertaining, Kerry was not. Gore was not. I unfortunately don't really see any entertaining people on the Democratic side.

As for the automation question, I think Trump, or his Republican successor, could pivot very easily to saying that robots are going to take Good Old-Fashioned American Jobs(tm) and a lot of people will follow that message.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#133

Post by gtirloni »

klipt wrote: post #113
torben-friis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think expanding it to Western culture is projecting a bit. Here in Europe, almost everyone I talk to considers the US a borderline hostile place to visit, let alone emigrate to... It's true that in part we're a bit spoiled by the ease of movement inside the EU, but the general experience of entering the US (including airport security) is unwelcoming to the point of being humiliating - very different to the way the…

Well traveling through the Schengen area is like traveling between US states. You don't even need a passport once you're in. If you're traveling on a non-EU passport, I don't know if entering the EU is much better. IIRC flying through Frankfurt once the customs people rifled through my carry-on for no apparent reason.

It's really different. Going to the US with a Latin American passport gives me a lot of anxiety. In Europe, I'm always asking myself "is this all?". It's a much better experience.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#134

Post by pugworthy »

godelski wrote: post #80

This seems isolationist. Why would we want to isolate ourselves? For a country that was founded upon immigrants, that extremely benefited (and continues to) from diversity of thought and ideas, why would we want to stop that? I'm just under 30 and I still remember growing up how I was told that a major part of what made America great was the melting pot. In academia and at labs I've seen this be a huge benefit. But I…

Logical, but logic does not prevail here. Nor science or reason.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#136

Post by DKnoll »

diveanon wrote: post #49
avocado4 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "have the financial means and strong enough passports to go pretty much anywhere they please. Same goes for most Japanese and Chinese" Chinese passport is one of the worst in the world as far as travel goes. [1][2] [1] https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Chinese_...

That doesn't seem to prevent millions of them from traveling every year.

If you have money and a clean background you can go anywhere you want (with some exceptions), regardless of your passport. There are companies you can contact who will handle the entire visa process for you.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#138

Post by pixl97 »

refurb wrote: post #124
godzillabrennus wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nativism is a reaction to the decline of the middle classes prospects. Half of America is not doing well and has been overlooked. The better educated amongst us are blinded by their own progress and weren’t looking inward. We will see more focus on nativist policies in our lifetime as automation continues to eat jobs.

Yet the middle class in the US is far wealthier than most countries’ middle class.

And? If you had $150,000 last year then only $50,000 this year you're relative situation is worse. You don't take how well someone in Africa is doing.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#140

Post by dahfizz »

klipt wrote: post #113
torben-friis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think expanding it to Western culture is projecting a bit. Here in Europe, almost everyone I talk to considers the US a borderline hostile place to visit, let alone emigrate to... It's true that in part we're a bit spoiled by the ease of movement inside the EU, but the general experience of entering the US (including airport security) is unwelcoming to the point of being humiliating - very different to the way the…

Well traveling through the Schengen area is like traveling between US states. You don't even need a passport once you're in. If you're traveling on a non-EU passport, I don't know if entering the EU is much better. IIRC flying through Frankfurt once the customs people rifled through my carry-on for no apparent reason.

My anecdotal experience is similar. Entering the US on a US passport is a breeze. Entering the EU on a US passport felt very hostile. I would imagine it's the same everywhere - it is the most fundamental job of a government to secure its own borders and maintain its own power.
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