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Abuses show Assange case was never about law

jonathan-cook.net

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Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#131

Post by Retra »

YUMad wrote: post #63

The guy ran and seeked asylum because he feared he will 'be made an example of' by USA. He sat in that tiny room for 6 years while US actors were working hard to smear him as a rapist and Russian puppet, while insinuating that everyone who claims USA is targeting Assange, or that there are indictments just waiting for his arrest is a conspiracy theorist. The moment he was removed from the embassy protection (again, a…

Even Nostradamus could correctly predict the fallout from his own actions. Saying "the US will come after me" isn't a revelation when you do things the US government doesn't like. The question is whether they are justified in doing so.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#132

Post by SamReidHughes »

verall wrote: post #102
SamReidHughes wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's quite a lie you've made here. He didn't sexually assault anybody, it was consensual with a minor.

It really isn't a lie. The state of Texas considers a 30 year old man fucking around with a "girl younger than 17 years" to be sexual assault. He has been charged with 4 counts of sexual assault.

The state of Reality considers getting entrapped into hiring an underage prostitute to not be sexual assault, and insinuations about it being dangerous to leave him alone with women are vile trash.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#133

Post by stale2002 »

duxup wrote: post #18

The whole "didn't flee rape charges" (or some form of that claim as the 'charges' thing hadn't happened at that time IIRC) situation is always odd to me. Sweeden considers espionage a political crime and does not extradite people for political crimes. Sweeden seems like a great place to be if you're wanted for political crimes. Not a great situation in life, but a good place to be for that. The usual theory in respon…

If you will notice, Assange is not being extradited to Sweden, he is being extradited to the USA.

Or in other words, this fear of being extradited to the US was completely justified, and everyone who thought otherwise was wrong, including you.

You are wrong. He is being sent to the US. That proves you wrong, and makes everything you have to say about Sweden incorrect, because he is being sent to the US.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#134

Post by mises »

wbhart wrote: post #89
Tomte wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that this is a case of treatment amounting to psychological torture I don't deny his symptoms, but I strongly deny that "his treatment" by others led to those symptoms. His own decisions and actions, namely, to live in a cramped room for years, and not going to see a doctor, led to those. Now, you may argue that he was right to do so. But it was by his own volition. Sweden would have given him first-class medical t…

I agree with you. I believe he even offered to present himself to Sweden if he could be guaranteed that he would not be extradited to the US. A Swedish prison would be a country club in comparison. But I think the concern of the UN here is that the circumstances were prolonged due to the refusal of all states to abide by a more or less binding UN ruling.

Regardless of positions on the issue, it's important to recognize that the UN has essentially no power. The only time it does is when certain powerful member states (mostly security council) agree to back a measure. In other words, half the UN's member states voting to back a measure does not matter if said member states are small ones. Same is true of enforcement: there has to be consensus, which is unlikely to happen against America.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#135

Post by AnaniasAnanas »

gamblor956 wrote: post #125
jMyles wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Innocent people don't run. I don't think this is a fair or universal generalization. Snowden ran. Leary ran. Rushdie ran. The Dalai Lama ran. Sometimes innocent people run.

None of your examples are comparable. Snowden ran after charges were filed against him. He admits to his actions. If he had stayed, he could have beaten the charges in court, because it is a defense to prosecution for a lesser crime to be committed (improper process of whistleblowing) to prevent a worse crime (various). But while Snowden is not innocent of the crime, he's simply got a valid defense to negate a guilty…

> The Dalai Lama, the then-legitimate ruler of Nepal

Tibet

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#136

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4

> No state in the world gives a non-citizen political asylum to avoid a rape trial The granting of political asylum does not prove the crimes alleged are solely political. That this point is granted zero further attention weakens every subsequent claim. The granting of political asylum is itself a political act. Particularly when extended by an executive. When Assange’s asylum was granted, Assange was popular and wel…

Your first footnote doesn't seem to support the claim that most American's don't know who Assange is. Did you perhaps link to the wrong article?

That would make me really sad if its true.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#137

Post by cc81 »

YUMad wrote: post #68
cc81 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the rape charges were made from nothing?

1) 'Rape' as in he didn't go and test himself for STDs when the woman he had sex with demanded it afterward. 2) Do you think no woman ever made up accusations about being raped? Every black man lynched for 'raping a white woman' really did rape them?

He was accused of two things. One was removing the condom during sex and that is not seen as rape but a lesser charge but the other one, having sex with a sleeping woman without a condom was rape. He is obviously not convicted yet so we don't know how it would hold up but in Sweden if someone is too drunk, sleeping or in a otherwise vulnerable position it is seen as rape. There is some more nuance to it but that is generally so.

Of course women makes up shit but it seems pretty far fetched that CIA would plan a couple of fan girls to have sex with him and then claim that he removed the condom.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#138

Post by threatofrain »

navigatesol wrote: post #50
dmayle wrote: post #8

Background for anyone who doesn't know: Jonathan Cook is a writer for the alt-right conspiracy rag, The Unz Review: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-unz-report/ This article is attempting to draw lines where there aren't. Julian Assange did in fact flee to the Ecuadorian embassy in order to escape rape charges. That he did so because he feared extradition to the US is correct, but that does not change the original…

> Jonathan Cook is a writer for the alt-right conspiracy rag This is the new attack vector of the left: if you associate with, speak to, write about or interview anyone who has ever said anything "bad", you are "bad", forever, and that's it. The definition of ad homimen . Newsflash for you: the old media models are dead. People publish things in all kinds of fora. This doesn't make you a stereotype or representation…

Concepts like reputation, trust, and credibility are as old as time, a concept which permeates all cultures... Just think of the idea of a court which cannot consider the reputation or credibility of different parties.

How does your perspective of left vs right work on this?

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#139

Post by sbuttgereit »

deogeo wrote: post #107
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #4

> No state in the world gives a non-citizen political asylum to avoid a rape trial The granting of political asylum does not prove the crimes alleged are solely political. That this point is granted zero further attention weakens every subsequent claim. The granting of political asylum is itself a political act. Particularly when extended by an executive. When Assange’s asylum was granted, Assange was popular and wel…

> But there is insufficient evidence to show he didn’t commit any bona fide crimes under U.S. law. Assange is an Australian, currently in the U.K., and was accused of rape in Sweden. We shouldn't let the apparently global reach of U.S. law go unexamined.

So as an American, with an American targeted business (and having never visited the EU), doesn't the EU's GDPR law make the same attempt at global reach should a European decide, unbeknownst to me, to visit my web properties? Or are you suggesting that laws that try to assert such global scope are wrong in general?

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#140

Post by proaralyst »

Tomte wrote: post #34
AlwaysRock wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying asking for sources is a bad thing?

No. I'm saying asking for sources as a way to express "I don't believe you" is a bad thing. First of all for the reason I've just given. But second, because it's passive-aggressive, disguised as interest in discussion, yet so transparent.

I'd generally prefer discussion on Hacker News was kept civil. If the parent had a reputable source for their assertion, I'd be interesting to see it. A lack of a source is also interesting.

Either way, asking for a source is better than just saying 'I don't believe you'.

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