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0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

0x.org

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Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#131

Post by dangero »

rickycook wrote: post #130
dangero wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another related issue is that tokens are bearer instruments controlled by whoever holds the right private keys. Most investments regulated in the US cannot legally be bearer instruments. This means there must be a ledger listing who owns what with real names attached. For public companies they must use a registered transfer agent to keep these ownership records. Private companies can keep their own records, but in mo…

well they don’t have to be... tokens are just code running on the blockchain, so you can apply anything you like to them... you can block a transfer until the recipient is in a whitelisted KYC list so that real world identities are known, and then you have your ledger worried that loses the “trustless” of blockchain? hash the KYC entry and store it on chain so you make certain that the off-chain real world ownership…

What happens when someone steals someones private keys and transfers the tokens to their account?

What happens when someone loses their private keys? The asset by US law is tied to them as a person, not a bearer instrument like a private key.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#132

Post by dangero »

homakov wrote: post #111
dangero wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another related issue is that tokens are bearer instruments controlled by whoever holds the right private keys. Most investments regulated in the US cannot legally be bearer instruments. This means there must be a ledger listing who owns what with real names attached. For public companies they must use a registered transfer agent to keep these ownership records. Private companies can keep their own records, but in mo…

Isn't onchain here a transfer agent? Bearer is more appliable to cash, because it's physical. A token movement is still recorded onchain, i.e. there is a set of transfer agents and consensus among them. It can be tuned to support some regulation.

Bearer has nothing to do with physicality.

Anything controlled by a private key is a bearer instrument by definition because the person bearing the private key has custody of the asset.

You're making up your own definition of transfer agent, not the one used by the SEC. They have specific requirements and responsibilities.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#134

Post by tomhschmidt »

joosters wrote: post #95

How does this manage to connect the real world to a blockchain? The fundamental problem with the promises of insurance/bonds/stocks/whatever on a blockchain is that it doesn't matter what the blockchain says, people's real-world actions aren't tied to it, so it's not trustless. And so the blockchain part is pointless. Only if all the related elements are all virtual and on the blockchain can it do anything - so we're…

Sounds like you're referring to security tokens, which place a securitized asset's cap table on a public blockchain. 0x works with all tokenized assets, so we're not opinionated about which assets people want to trade -- other companies like Harbor (https://harbor.com/) offer tokenization services. You're right that placing bearer instruments on a public blockchain presents some issues and the jury is still out a bit.

An alternative might be found in protocols like UMA (https://umaproject.org/), Augur (https://www.augur.net/) or MakerDAO (https://makerdao.com/) which allow you create synthetic tokens that trustlessly track the price of a real-world asset by creating financial incentives to rebalance the price of the minted tokens. MakerDAO has already been used to create over $80MM in a synthetic USD token called Dai (https://makerdao.com/dai/) and UMA has created a synthetic S&P500 token, allowing anyone anywhere around the world to get exposure to US Stocks (https://medium.com/uma-project/announcing-us-stock-index-tok...).

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#135

Post by homakov »

dangero wrote: post #132
homakov wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't onchain here a transfer agent? Bearer is more appliable to cash, because it's physical. A token movement is still recorded onchain, i.e. there is a set of transfer agents and consensus among them. It can be tuned to support some regulation.

Bearer has nothing to do with physicality. Anything controlled by a private key is a bearer instrument by definition because the person bearing the private key has custody of the asset. You're making up your own definition of transfer agent, not the one used by the SEC. They have specific requirements and responsibilities.

An account is controlled by a key AND the validators who choose to record their transaction. One cannot just share the key with others. First, they need to record it with ledger keepers. How is it not like transfer agent?

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#136

Post by jamespitts »

arcticbull wrote: post #115
jamespitts wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering why is up to you, the builder; differentiation is key to why 0x has created this protocol. "Tokens" can be a special kind of object which can be "exchanged" for other kinds of objects. It is not always about purchasing or swapping; this interaction can solve many different kinds of coordination problems. The exchange can create a context around users interacting via various types of tokens, enabling new kin…

> This could lead to enormous value for users. In what way? I think that was the parent poster's question. I think it's fair if we're going to be making huge broad-strokes claims we should at least attempt to justify them.

The properties of the general medium and of exchanges themselves would provide value if built upon. At the core of of the value proposition is the value derived from more efficient human coordination.

- Giving certainty about the properties of the token asset to the user. Whether trading the exchange or in use at a service which accepts the token, the user verify what the token actually does. And what might change! Reduces risk of policy-change by owners and managers of services.

- Giving control of the token asset to the users, or at least a verifiable level of control. Reduces risk of interference.

- Securing the token asset, protecting the asset and related data. Reduces risk of loss.

- Enabling easy integration or migration to other smart contract systems, due to token standards like ERC-20 and ERC-721. Reduces risk of vendor lock-in. Powers beneficial second-order effects.

- Enabling composability. With primitives like various kinds of tokens and "exchange" addressed and standardized, new layers can be built, new configurations found. Creates value by reducing steps for users as they engage with each other within token-based smart-contract systems.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#137

Post by verroq »

tacosx wrote: post #92
tomhschmidt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to list the same assets as everyone else with the same interface in the same markets, then yes, it's hard to compete. However, we see a world of tokenized assets coming online that will need unique markets for exchange. Something like Radar Relay ( https://radarrelay.com/ for ERC-20 commodities) is totally different from Veil ( https://veil.co/ for prediction market shares) is totally different from BoxSw…

I too can madlibs any noun in front of "blockchain" and try to start a pyramid scheme off of it, but the question is why?

I don’t see what is the point of this comment other than “hurr durr blockchain bad”. Providing a marketplace tokenised assets/digital assets is useful.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#138

Post by kissickas »

Legogris wrote: post #103
kissickas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDEX has been the #1 DAPP on Ethereum since March 2018[0]. It's also the #1 DAPP by users and transaction count. You can't buy crypto with fiat there, though, so connecting your orthodox bank accounts is irrelevant in this case. The founder said yesterday in an interview [1] that they may work with partners to enable this eventually, but so far I don't know any good decentralized exchanges that offer that. Buying cry…

Bisq has that and has been around for years. Want a single, stable, smooth and fast fiat gateway with strong guarantees like you have on he realized exchanges? I think that's fundamentally incompatible with not having intermediaries. As others mentioned,calling IDEX decentralized is weasel-wording at best. It's a hybrid.

Fair enough. As far as I know, it aims to be fully decentralized by everyone's definition eventually, apart from KYC which I accept as a necessity.

For my needs, the decentralization they currently offer is all I really care about (I am able to get my funds out at any time, and no one else is).

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#139

Post by dangero »

homakov wrote: post #135
dangero wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bearer has nothing to do with physicality. Anything controlled by a private key is a bearer instrument by definition because the person bearing the private key has custody of the asset. You're making up your own definition of transfer agent, not the one used by the SEC. They have specific requirements and responsibilities.

An account is controlled by a key AND the validators who choose to record their transaction. One cannot just share the key with others. First, they need to record it with ledger keepers. How is it not like transfer agent?

Yes, the transfer agent can ask for a key signing before moving funds, but they also need to be able to transfer WITHOUT the key. Examples would be a key loss or transfer of ownership due to court order. I don't know what the key is doing since it's optional and highly fallible proof of transfer intent.

At best the key signing is providing a partial audit trail with no case law to support any liability transfer created by its use. Typically transfer agents take very little liability by requiring a medallion signature before allowing a transfer.

Re: 0x Launch Kit – Launch your own cryptocurrency exchange or marketplace

#140

Post by arcticbull »

rickycook wrote: post #125
tacosx wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too can madlibs any noun in front of "blockchain" and try to start a pyramid scheme off of it, but the question is why?

95% of blockchain projects are a garbage heap, crypto currency is WAY overvalued, but the 5% of projects that are actually useful, and have a real need for a blockchain may just fundamentally change parts of how we live life when micro transactions as a concept came to games, it changed the way people wrote games. when crowd funding became mainstream, it allowed more innovation from people with just a need and an ide…

> don’t dismiss the 5% useful for the 95% useless (and no, i’m not going to enumerate the useful cases because it’s been done to death)

It sounds like you can't point to any, like everyone else who insists there's a 'there' there. Nobody has been able to point to a single, legal, use case where crypto is better than a fiat based technology. Zip. None. But they're all sure it's there.

Don't you think with all the interest in the space, if someone had come up with one, it'd be enormous? EOS raised over four BILLION dollars a few years ago and still doesn't have a working blockchain. [1] You can fire up a blockchain in minutes. If there was a company that actually created something of value, it'd be worth more than the mewn y'all are trying to reach.

We've been waiting for a decade now, I'm sure OP will deliver /s.

[1] https://toshitimes.com/eos-is-not-a-blockchain/

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