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Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

nytimes.com

131–138 of 138 posts

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#131
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any place with comparable population density with a substantially better social environment? If so, have you any theories that could explain the difference?

The modern Chinese psyche has been sculpted in large part due to the Cultural Revolution. People who have grown up in comfort do not fully comprehend the effect of widespread hunger on a large population. Natural selection rewarded those that put their families above everything. The families that did not died. Parents that did not do everything in their power to feed their children watched them starve to death in the…

Thanks for your reply. I just quibble with calling that selection "natural".

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decided to concoct wild self-righteous theories to justify his bias rather than change his viewpoint To what? Is there a "right" answer that would serve someone better? It's always going to appear self-righteous when you justify your own worldview. The utility of JP's views, is why other people adopt it, not some fictional "messianic cult". JP's reasoning has flaws and gaps as with all people. Even the utility is f…

> Even the utility is from other historical wisdom, not his own, repackaged into a story. Easily digestable and as rational as any other I have seen. but that doesn’t necessarily make them true

What does "true" mean in this context? A belief system isn't true in any sense, nor is it practical to have a full knowledge of reality (enough to have rigid axioms about human behavior), so what's the goalpost here?

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#133
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that been working out for the last 40 years?

Do you really think that governments have been actively working on this for 40 years? Other than the occasional signalling, there's not been trade sanction or tariffs.

The EPA was founded in 1972.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the problem with toilet paper? That stuff degrades really really fast even if simply dumped somewhere.

IDK, you have to clear the whole Amazon if 7bio people want toilet paper?

Don't count me in - I've already stored up 4 decades of tp.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#135

Not only banned flourocarbons, China and Asia are the main source of plastics entering the oceans through their rivers. Some are calling for environmental mercenaries, like Earth First! or GreenPeace, who will reek havoc on those who pollute or endanger the planet, ourselves included.

[flagged]

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#136
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And perhaps there should be tariffs on Chinese goods to prevent them from dumping poisonous products on the market. Some of these things like lead and cadmium in children's pencil cases made me wonder if this was intentional.

> And perhaps there should be tariffs on Chinese goods Someone other than Trump will have to do it though, otherwise the motives are all wrong

If the results are positive, the motives won't matter.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty much what we'd expect when markets are allowed to operate unhinged; it doesn't necessarily speak to a point in time in an economy's development—it moreso speaks to the fact that less developed economies are less strictly regulated because they've yet to develop the case law and obituaries on which protective regulations are formed. With that in mind it's a bit hard to ignore the irony in the regul…

> it seems that the lawmakers have too perverse an incentive structure and their constituents have too short a memory to realize which regulations are necessary to protect the greater good. while reading your post half way i was thinking to reply saying the exact same thing this gives me much pause, because it means that even if more and more these deregulation’s hurt society, they would get drowned out by the (incre…

Yeah; I think it just speaks to the fact that there is no substitution to being a well-informed individual. If you're cognizant about understanding the world around you, you're generally pretty good at weeding bad information out and bringing good information in. Unfortunately, I think the internet has a siloing effect and the most sensational voices rise to the top. People get caught in their silos and don't have an easy way to peek outside. Misinformation spreads; and that's scary when trying to quantify the future of our society.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#138
post #47

Having been an expat traveled to over 25 countries, I can confidently say our natural world is fucked. Modern industrialism has given the third world too much manufacturing power. And they aren’t aware of the consequences and don’t care, because “fuckit I want kids toys and double ply toilet paper for my family too, not just the Westerners”

All currently rich "sophisticated" countries were in a similar phase when they were fighting their way out of poverty. Once countries get rich enough, they can afford to care about the environment. China seems to advance much faster than others did historically, so I'm hopeful.

I completely agree. We just happened to do it first.
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