In the recorded interview, Sam Altman says climate change is such a hard problem that we need strong AI first to solve it. I have doubts about this for several reasons: - Human psychology is one of the biggest obstacles (maybe the biggest) in solving climate change, and I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. - Building carbon-neutral energy sources is a hard problem, but most experts are optimistic abo…
> I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. presumably a sufficiently advanced AI could find or create a technical solution that perfectly solves the problem with no downsides, or at least so little downside or cost that even those who "don't believe" in climate change couldn't refuse trying it out.
Sam Altman’s leap of faith
131–140 of 166 posts
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#132It's interesting that in order for his pitch to work (if you invest in OpenAI, you will get up to 100x returns), assuming they do build AGI, it still requires that their AGI acquires a very stable, virtually guaranteed advantage of large magnitude. This very strongly requires that they cannot share anything they discover whatsoever. Especially since they apparently plan on using it to make strategic investments to be…
Yeah, there's a big assumptions about the nature of an AGI breakthrough, mainly that it will be a snowball of run away value. Why assume this? Is it because we think AlphaGo/Zero can produce human-like cognition? Why wouldn't it be a long, incremental process of X thousand small breakthroughs, over say a decade, where the result is something like average human-level intelligence; maybe the most important invention of…
Actually, there are a lot of good arguments for logistic growth. The only ones for linear or sublinear I’ve heard are not strong and mostly take as an implicit assumption “those alarmists and their exponential growth! They probably didn’t even consider that it could be a slower, more incremental growth” instead of actual fully-fledged arguments.
There’s also a meta-argument that I have yet to hear reproduced in anti-alarmist sentiments. Which case demands more attention, if it does happen? If there’s a 5% chance of the growth being exponential, how much attention should we devote to that case, where the impact is much higher than linear or sublinear growth. This is such a big deal - it’s like Pascal’s wager but with a real occurrence that I believe most would admit has at least a small chance of happening.
Apologies for any brashness coming across. I’m still figuring out how to communicate effectively about a thing I feel a lot of emotions when thinking about.
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#133In the recorded interview, Sam Altman says climate change is such a hard problem that we need strong AI first to solve it. I have doubts about this for several reasons: - Human psychology is one of the biggest obstacles (maybe the biggest) in solving climate change, and I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. - Building carbon-neutral energy sources is a hard problem, but most experts are optimistic abo…
I agree w/ you, but devil's advocate: Perhaps arriving at "I'm not sure how" is the logic underlying Altman's conclusion. That is, for any problem x that human's attempt but cannot seem to wrap their heads around (i.e. resolve to "I'm not sure how to solve x"), then x is in the family of AGI-hard problems. Here x = climate change, and b/c we don't know how to solve x (be it challenges across tech/social/political/etc…
I'm not saying AGI is useless. On the contrary, I think it could be extremely useful. But we need to act very quickly to limit the negative consequences of climate change. Waiting for an hypothetical AGI would be foolish.
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree w/ you, but devil's advocate: Perhaps arriving at "I'm not sure how" is the logic underlying Altman's conclusion. That is, for any problem x that human's attempt but cannot seem to wrap their heads around (i.e. resolve to "I'm not sure how to solve x"), then x is in the family of AGI-hard problems. Here x = climate change, and b/c we don't know how to solve x (be it challenges across tech/social/political/etc…
That's wishful thinking. Humanity was not sure how to solve x, until it was solved. It happened all the time. For example, Gödel or Einstein work were major breakthrough, and we didn't wait AGI to solve this. I'm not saying AGI is useless. On the contrary, I think it could be extremely useful. But we need to act very quickly to limit the negative consequences of climate change. Waiting for an hypothetical AGI would b…
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#1351. The foundational issue is not even that AGI "does not yet exist, with even AI's top researchers far from clear about when it might". It's way worse than that. There is a strong argument made by one of the grandfathers of AI research that AGI cannot exist, at least in the sense of common sense intelligence as attributed to humans. (see Winograd "Understanding Computers & Cognition" 1985). I was first introduced to these ideas taking a class from Winograd in undergrad.
Winograd asks why we attribute mind properties to computers but not to, say, clocks. The dominant view of mind assumes that cognition is based on systematic manipulation of representations, but there is another, non-representational way of looking at it as a form of "structural coupling" between a living organism and its environment. "The cognitive domain deals with the relevance of the changing structure of the system to behavior that is effective for its survival."
I won't try to summarize a book-length argument in a few paragraphs. I just want to point out that this whole AGI conversation rests on a premise that has been seriously challenged.
The fact that Altman can get away with saying stuff like "Once we build a generally intelligent system... we will ask it to figure out a way to make an investment return" is an indication of just how insane the mainstream AI discussion has gotten. At this point it sounds like straight-up religion being prophesied from on high.
2. The whole "capped profit" positioning at 100x return is absurd, as the author points out. Altman's argument for why it makes sense involves invoking the possibility that the AGI opportunity is so incomprehensibly enormous that if OpenAI manages to crack this particular nut, it could “maybe capture the light cone of all future value in the universe". Repent, ye sinners, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
3. Most troubling, perhaps, is OpenAI's transparent ploy to attempt to generate buzz and take the ethical high ground with their alarmist PR strategy. Altman's justification for OpenAI's fear-mongering, which I'll paraphrase as "look at what happened with Facebook", just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. To begin with, Facebook was a real product from day one; AGI is currently a fantasy.
But there's a deeper problem with invoking Facebook. The lesson to be learned from Facebook's failure is that the real danger with tech isn't algorithms but the people that design them. Algorithms have no agency. They just do what they're supposed to do. But hiding behind the algorithm seems to be the preferred way for tech oligarchs to avoid taking responsibility for the problems they created.
The reason why I'm so troubled by OpenAI sounding the alarm bells about destructive AGI is that they are shifting the discussion away from the real threat: people. Especially people in power with virtually unlimited technological power and massive blind spots about the consequences of their actions. Give the algorithms a break!
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#136In the recorded interview, Sam Altman says climate change is such a hard problem that we need strong AI first to solve it. I have doubts about this for several reasons: - Human psychology is one of the biggest obstacles (maybe the biggest) in solving climate change, and I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. - Building carbon-neutral energy sources is a hard problem, but most experts are optimistic abo…
> Human psychology is one of the biggest obstacles (maybe the biggest) in solving climate change, and I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. If you believe in Yudkowsky's AI-box claim, a strong AI can convince politicians and business executives of things they are determined not to believe.
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#137In the recorded interview, Sam Altman says climate change is such a hard problem that we need strong AI first to solve it. I have doubts about this for several reasons: - Human psychology is one of the biggest obstacles (maybe the biggest) in solving climate change, and I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. - Building carbon-neutral energy sources is a hard problem, but most experts are optimistic abo…
I think the idea might be that strong AI could accelerate R&D in general. For example, the politics could change a lot if inexpensive technical solutions are found for removing carbon from the air. That may seem rather unlikely, but the true believers in Strong AI tend to think of it as a magic wand: if people can do scientific research, why couldn't a machine do it faster?
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#138In the recorded interview, Sam Altman says climate change is such a hard problem that we need strong AI first to solve it. I have doubts about this for several reasons: - Human psychology is one of the biggest obstacles (maybe the biggest) in solving climate change, and I'm not sure how a strong AI is supposed to fix that. - Building carbon-neutral energy sources is a hard problem, but most experts are optimistic abo…
> Building carbon-neutral energy sources is a hard problem, but most experts are optimistic about our ability to solve this (for example, nuclear fusion). Having been in the carbon-neutral energy sources industry for a while, I agree with your statement, but not your example. There are already carbon-neutral energy sources that exist and are cheap and competitive (solar and wind). So while it would be great if nuclea…
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#139> Everyone always acts like AGI will be some super human that will be able to solve all of our problems, but what if instead AGI just becomes another protected class? It will demand rights, and we'll have to set aside a certain amount of resource that would have originally gone to humans to make sure its needs are met and it doesn't feel discriminated against or exploited. What happens when AGI demands that fossil fuels or other unclean energy be used to provide it with power or else we are all anti-AGI? Instead of solving climate change, for all we know it could make it worse. And if people think they will be able to stand up to it, just look at how easy it is to create outrage and shame mobs on social media. Politicians will fall all over themselves to suck up to it, journalists won't be savvy enough to understand what's even going on, and anyone who suggests unplugging the thing will be labelled a far-out radical.
Re: Sam Altman’s leap of faith
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's wishful thinking. Humanity was not sure how to solve x, until it was solved. It happened all the time. For example, Gödel or Einstein work were major breakthrough, and we didn't wait AGI to solve this. I'm not saying AGI is useless. On the contrary, I think it could be extremely useful. But we need to act very quickly to limit the negative consequences of climate change. Waiting for an hypothetical AGI would b…
Taking off my devil's advocate hat (horns?)... I agree. Even if we use that logic to punt some problems to AGI -- e.g. solve near-light speed travel, or space-based solar power -- we cannot afford to sit idly by while climate change destroys the planet.