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Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

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Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#131

Post by roenxi »

sokoloff wrote: post #101
cljs-js-eval wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's archaic and should be changed, but the way the system works in the U.S. is pretty well known to its citizens, which makes it at least partially the fault of the pensioners. I live in Chicago and every retired schoolteacher and police officer I meet knows full well that they're making an exceptional amount of money in retirement. It's usually part of why they took the job.

IMO, it's no more the pensioners' fault than any other voter. If they're a resident eligible to vote, it's partly their fault. It's not their fault for accepting a job offer with certain terms broadly available.

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand...

(1) Pension decisions play out potentially over ~30-40 years.

(2) If we accept that the cause is some official made a bad decision, it is almost certain that pension issues will be ongoing. There is potentially a 40 year window for idiots to get in and screw the whole system up.

So in a sense, some large group of people need to be responsible. Not because it is fair, but because if that isn't how we treat the situation it isn't likely to get fixed for the next round of pension crises. The pensioners were most invested in the success of the enterprise. They are most responsible for its failure.

This isn't a nice position to hold, but the alternatives are a very nebulous concepts of blame and lumping the cost of fixing all the mistakes on the one group of people who we know weren't responsible - people who are currently entering or in the workforce and can pay taxes.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#132

Post by Spooky23 »

scarface74 wrote: post #88
throwawaymath wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but it is listed in the top 20. What you're citing doesn't seem to support your thesis; in fact, it appears to refute it. With that in mind, and considering the foregoing back of the napkin math I presented, I'm still not following how police officers don't endanger their lives.

About a third less than garbage collectors.... https://qz.com/410585/garbage-collectors-are-more-likely-to-... Does that mean we should pay garbage collectors more in hazard pay than police?

No. Garbagemen should have life and disability insurance.

Police and fire employees tend to live shorter lives due to specific conditions related their occupation. It’s apples and oranges.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#134

Post by mindslight »

tzs wrote: post #121
mindslight wrote: post #34

Maybe instead of putting on a show in court, Netflix et al should simply stop asking people for their physical addresses ? I mean, that is the underlying vulnerability that will allow this push to succeed. We were so excited for the promise of the Internet to overturn all this legacy bullshit. Then the legacy bullshitters got here, built a bunch of proprietary services on top of HTTP, marketed them as progress, and a…

> Maybe instead of putting on a show in court, Netflix et al should simply stop asking people for their physical addresses? I mean, that is the underlying vulnerability that will allow this push to succeed. > We were so excited for the promise of the Internet to overturn all this legacy bullshit. Then the legacy bullshitters got here, built a bunch of proprietary services on top of HTTP, marketed them as progress, an…

> The tax would still be charged even if their service were built entirely out of free software and all they streamed was public domain material, as long as they charged for the service.

If a user couldn't simply `git clone` and then http://localhost/ , that would still be a proprietary service. Even if a foundation is free - HTTP/TCP/IP or even Free software as in your example - services built on top are not necessarily so.

My point is that Netflix is better viewed as yet another cable company, rather than as some champion of the Internet. This is especially relevant to Net Neutrality, for understanding when Netflix will turncoat - they aren't going to be standing up for p2p rights.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#135

Post by enraged_camel »

Spooky23 wrote: post #129
scarface74 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole idea of policemen “risking their lives” is not statistically accurate. Only 144 policemen died in the line of duty in the entire United States last year ( https://www.npr.org/2018/12/27/680410169/more-police-officer... ) The Chicago police department isn’t exactly what most people would call “quality”.

Police and Fire work is hard on employees, reducing their overall life expectancy materially. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734369/

You can say the same about a lot of professions, particularly blue-collar.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#136

Post by wbl »

chrismeller wrote: post #74
rrrrreeeee wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada, pensions contributions are never ever adjusted depending on market performance. Instead, payouts are typically indexed to inflation. When markets are down, funds usually have a shortfall, so they cut the inflation indexing. When markets are up and the pension fund is overfunded, they restore the inflation adjustment. This slightly harms the pensioners, but not by much to have a critical effect on their wel…

This is a reasonable approach, but means you don’t really ever have any idea how much you’ll have when you retire. Honestly that’s probably the only approach that will ever work longer term, but it’s not an easy thing to sell or plan for. The US Postal System has essentially this exact problem every year - they aren’t making enough to cover their pension obligations so they keep raising stamp prices (and let’s not ge…

They also are obligated to cover all future obligations today, which is pretty unrealistic.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#137

Post by wbl »

prepend wrote: post #51
gfodor wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pulling or cutting the pensions of retired public service workers (many of whom who risked their lives to protect the public) would, beyond the ethical questions, eliminate the credibility of the city's promises to those who sign up for such jobs and hence would likely greatly reduce the quantity and quality of recruits.

I don’t think the fix is removing pensions from old people, but rather drastically reforming pensions for future retirees entering the workforce now. Cutting pensions now would be like cutting someone’s salary and would likely lead to skilled people quitting.

What about unvested obligations for current workers like 3٪ of highest pay going to 2٪ for all pay after now?

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#138

Post by wbl »

tzs wrote: post #118
shittyadmin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't reside there, you're not liable to abide by their laws. I run a small US company, I don't have to comply with GDPR for example. Same applies here. I don't see why any company would implement this, perhaps appeasing regulators at the federal level.

You would have been right up to June 21, 2018. After that, you are wrong. See South Dakota v. Wayfair, decided by the Supreme Court on that date [1]. If your business is in the US, and your customer is in the US, you can now be required to collect taxes for your customer's jurisdiction even if you have no connection with that jurisdiction other than online or mail order customers reside therein. [1] https://en.wikipe…

But ideally Congress forces states to make their tax systems easy to comply with in return.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#139

Post by frosted-flakes »

sjy wrote: post #128
macspoofing wrote: post #21

Hate it. There's nothing wrong with taxes, but this kind of tax is onerous. It adds a shit ton of overhead if you have to maintain tax rates for every municipality in US, or the world. This is where I wish government would figure something else out. Have one state or (preferably) federal agency levy one tax, and then figure out how to disperse the collected income to municipalities - instead of each municipality crea…

It's not hard to "figure something else out"; this problem became a political issue in Australia in the 1980s and was finally solved with a federal goods and services tax in 2000, the proceeds of which are distributed back to the states by an apolitical bureaucracy. There are no more local or state sales taxes. I am sure other countries have found similar solutions. The difficulty is overcoming the political and cons…

Yep. Canada has the federal General Sales Tax (5%), and most provinces have a separate Provincial Sales Tax (varying rates). Some provinces have combined these into the Harmonized Sales Tax, which is collected by the Canada Revenue Agency and the provincial portion distributed according to their respective rates.

Other levels of government are not permitted to charge sales tax, or even income tax. Most cities' primary sources of income are property tax and development fees.

Re: Chicago successfully taxes streaming services

#140

Post by opo »

wbl wrote: post #136
chrismeller wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a reasonable approach, but means you don’t really ever have any idea how much you’ll have when you retire. Honestly that’s probably the only approach that will ever work longer term, but it’s not an easy thing to sell or plan for. The US Postal System has essentially this exact problem every year - they aren’t making enough to cover their pension obligations so they keep raising stamp prices (and let’s not ge…

They also are obligated to cover all future obligations today, which is pretty unrealistic.

The real issue for the postal service is that the law was changed so that the USPS would start funding their retirement health care costs since they are promised to the workers and the projected costs had exploded:

>...Although retiree health benefits are often unfunded or poorly funded, two considerations suggested the Service’s retiree health care obligations should be funded: they are as firm a commitment as the Service’s pensions, and they had become enormous (about $75 billion by 2006). In 2003, the presidential commission suggested establishing a reserve fund for these obligations, and the Postal Service itself sent Congress a proposal for creating such a fund.

>Prior to 2006, the Service simply paid retirees’ health benefit premiums when they came due. The Service put aside no money when it promised the future benefits. Paying benefits when they come due rather than funding them in advance is known as the pay-as-you-go or unfunded approach.

>Early this century, Congress, the Administration, the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO), and a bipartisan presidential commission expressed concern about the lack of funding. Although retiree health benefits are often unfunded or poorly funded, two considerations suggested the Service’s retiree health care obligations should be funded: they are as firm a commitment as the Service’s pensions, and they had become enormous (about $75 billion by 2006). In 2003, the presidential commission suggested establishing a reserve fund for these obligations, and the Postal Service itself sent Congress a proposal for creating such a fund.

>In 2002-2003, it was discovered that the Service was contributing far more than necessary to fully fund its pensions, and Congress allowed the Service to contribute less. Congress decided the pension “savings” could help patch the retiree health benefit underfunding. In 2006, as part of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act (PAEA), the Postal Service Retirement Health Benefits Fund (RHBF) was established. Most of the Service’s contributions to the new fund could be paid using the pension “savings.” PAEA was bipartisan legislation with broad support.

https://taxfoundation.org/primer-postal-service-retiree-heal...

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