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Google launches new “portal” HTML element

zdnet.com

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Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#131

Post by dqybh »

mikewhy wrote: post #68
rahuldottech wrote: post #57

> portals can be pre-loaded while the user scrolls through a page Let's be real here. This can already be done though "prefetch" and "preload" [0]. This is just Google introducing more pointless tech that will make webpages clunkier for no good reason. Honestly, I can't think of a single purpose this serves that isn't already fulfilled by existing web tech. [0]: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49491193/how-can-i-…

The spec goes into detail of why existing tech (iframes) aren't enough: https://github.com/WICG/portals/blob/master/explainer.md#faq... https://github.com/WICG/portals/blob/master/explainer.md#alt...

https://github.com/WICG/portals/blob/master/explainer.md#ifr...

Heh, "we considered this but it's hard to do in Chrome".

But they don't give a shit if is hard to do in Gecko, of course.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#132

Post by skybrian »

skymt wrote: post #118
skybrian wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're reading about this looking for how Google might misuse it, and that's what you see, then it seems like you're reading it as you intended. This isn't surprising. Many things can be read more than one way with only a little imagination. But there are other ways to read things. Like, how could I use that on my site? I'm thinking it might be fun to do something like the infinite zoom that Scott McCloud wrote ab…

It's true that I could be lacking imagination. Because to me the portal proposal reads like it's simply moving the implementation of Google's AMP carousel into the browser in order to solve the address-bar problem. Your suggested use cases aren't terribly convincing, I'm afraid. Zooming UIs are perfectly possible using existing web technology. It would be interesting to have a standard way to embed Twitter/Facebook-s…

Sorry about that, I didn't mean you have little imagination, but rather that any reading of a tech spec requires a bit of imagination.

It doesn't seem all that unreasonable for a web page to show a preview if the window size is small enough. You could do that with a media query. And then when it goes full-screen, it would already be loaded and that would just be a resize.

This would take cooperation from web sites.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#133

Post by skymt »

Touche wrote: post #111
vernie wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you certainly can't raise a stink after it's in the standard.

My point is, portal isn't "an iframe without all the security protections." portal is a demo of animating between pages. What it becomes from there is completely flexible.

Animation isn't the point of the portal element, it's to allow cross-site navigation to an embedded page without reloading.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#134

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

progfix wrote: post #9

Do they use their internet dominance to invent a bunch of complex html elements so google becomes the only one being able to parse html effectively in the future? I hope not.

They kind of already are, that's why Firefox is forever playing catch-up and Microsoft ditched Edge/Trident.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#135

Post by _bxg1 »

lqet wrote: post #15

Can someone explain to me the innovation here, besides some page-transition eye-candy? > Furthermore, portals can also overwrite the main URL address bar, meaning they are useful as a navigation system Isn't this already possible with iframes and target="_top" / target="_parent"? You can also use the -Tag inside the iframe. > The advantage over using Portals over classic links is that the content inside portals can b…

The main limitation on using frames/iframes for different sections of the same UI was that they couldn't impact the primary URL, which means if you click a link in one of them, then reload the page, the frame gets reset to its default view. Charitably, I can see some small benefit to the idea of having "frames but they aren't bad", instead of having every JS framework reimplement its own view routing.

Uncharitably, this probably just gives Google more ability to track/control your interaction with sites that it links you to.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#136

Post by Touche »

bzbarsky wrote: post #125
Touche wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is, portal isn't "an iframe without all the security protections." portal is a demo of animating between pages. What it becomes from there is completely flexible.

Things are not "flexible" once they have been shipped on by default, typically. Changing behavior or removing at that point becomes very hard, requiring usage measurements, etc.

This is not on by default.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#137

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

neilalexander wrote: post #17
progfix wrote: post #9

Do they use their internet dominance to invent a bunch of complex html elements so google becomes the only one being able to parse html effectively in the future? I hope not.

I don't think Google can be wholly blamed for that dominance. It's only natural that they would want to invent their own web rendering engine and with it they can pretty much choose what they do. What's less natural is that so many other browsers/frameworks chose to be based upon it (like every Electron app in the world, Opera, Silk, Microsoft Edge real soon now™). Apart from Safari or Firefox, there aren't really ma…

It's the natural consequence of people clamoring to turn a simple hypertext engine into a full on application VM. Feature upon feature was piled on, producing a gigantic ludicrously complicated garbage fire the likes of which simply cannot be replicated by mortals, and to ensure this whoever is on top will keep adding to the garbage fire so no one can ever catch up.

Web devs and evangelists of the world, you brought this on yourselves.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#139

Post by sebazzz »

skymt wrote: post #60

Am I reading this wrong, or is Google pushing a fairly complex element with substantial security considerations into HTML exclusively to solve their UX problems with AMP and the pre-load search carousel? Like this seems like it would be a fair amount of work for browsers to implement, and Google is the only party who would benefit.

Like HTTP signed exchanges, these are solutions for problems Google has.

Re: Google launches new “portal” HTML element

#140

Post by Wowfunhappy »

kermitismyhero wrote: post #51
bryanlarsen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just switch to Firefox on Android and use uBlock Origin or similar.

The recent extension-disabling problem made me realize how awful the unfiltered web is. Trying to use mobile Chrome for the first time ever was a dreadful experience. I legitimately had no idea that mobile Chrome doesn't have any extension capability whatsoever. I always assumed it was a Firefox-style unified experience where the same desktop extensions worked on mobile. I was horrified to discover otherwise. Ads ads…

I don’t use an Adblocker due to ethical concerns. (Not trying to convince you to do the same, just explaining.)

It’s, uh, really not that bad. I rarely notice banner ads and the like. If a particular site gets really egrigious, I leave the site.

I suspect that after using Adblock for years, your brain has forgotten how to ignore them.

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