Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rule #1 if you're applying for jobs or graduate school - Don't use gmail for your email address. Source: Led a hiring committee this year. Interview invitations and job offers went straight to the junk mail folder. Also serve as Director of Graduate Studies. Admissions and funding offers, as well as general inquiries about availability, all went straight to the junk mail folder. We're not going to change our email se…
"Our outbound email is misconfigured, but this is everyone else's problem"?
Google Is Eating Our Mail
131–140 of 720 posts
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#132Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#133Google seems to not agree DKIM is setup properly? https://toolbox.googleapps.com/apps/checkmx/check?domain=tab...
These checkers for example don't find any errors with the DNS record:
https://dmarcian.com/dkim-inspector/?domain=tablix.org&selec...
https://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=dkim%3atablix.or...
One thing that this second one does find is the lack of a version number in the record. I see that the RFC [1] got updated since the last time I checked and having that is now recommended instead of optional. I'll add that. Thanks!
EDIT: after adding version record, Google's tool now shows green checkmark for DKIM as well.
In any case, it's impossible to test a DKIM setup just by looking at the DNS records. The true test is to verify the actual signature in the message. Last time I checked, the mail on the receiving end (Gmail), did have "dkim=pass" in the Authentication-Results headers.
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#134Can confirm, my server is also not accepted by google for years now when mailing someone with a business account. I'm not going to bother fixing Google's problems and support the behaviour, though, I'll just contact them through other means and let them know their email provider is blocking mail addressed to them. At work we use sendgrid because of this. Have to trust a centralised third party to send out api keys. I…
>Can confirm, my server is also not accepted by google for years now when mailing someone with a business account. Hey, I remember you were one of the replies[1] in my previous thread that said I was exaggerating the "send emails" issue. Maybe your difficulty with Gmail's mystery filtering algorithm will warn others that depending on personal email servers for reliable outgoing email is a non-trivial endeavor. Perhap…
- My comment in this thread was mainly about gmail for businesses, hence the contrast between "I'm not going to fix their problems and just tell the recipient their setup is broken" and the previous "it's doable". Other mail providers are usually no problem at all, and personal Google accounts are also better.
- For email to personal gmail accounts it seemed to be enough to send a few mails and get a good reputation. Since then (and since my previous comment), I think I've started ending up in spamboxes again, but the number of messages I send to Google is very low. It's not outright rejected, though, since I would notice that.
- I still think this part of my previous message is very true: "I don't think we should dissuade people from doing it, especially if the fact that more people doing it means that it'll be easier next time because it'll be slightly more common. Many of us are in tech and the field is a small subset of the population. Even if it's a small amount of servers setup by us, that could make a noticeable on those working at bigcorps who write the hostile receivers."
> Maybe your difficulty with Gmail's mystery filtering algorithm will warn others that depending on personal email servers for reliable outgoing email is a non-trivial endeavor.
I hope not. For what it's worth, I'm still at it and have no plans to stop hosting my own mail! I'm very happy not to share my data with a third party (the ideological part of it), but on a practical level, I also don't have a spam problem and I can be sure that email arrives. No message has ever not reached me due to spam filtering. It's also much faster than, say, Runbox, which we use at work and takes at least 30 seconds for any sign up email to arrive (too short to get coffee, too long not to be slightly annoyed). As another data point, my girlfriend switched from 1und1 to my mail server because it has some conveniences, without most of the downsides (since I manage it all for her). She hasn't had delivery issues so far.
As a related tidbit, I've also recently started blocking Google from my website. They're being a dick on the internet (not to me, it's more of a solidarity move, see https://lucb1e.com/!130) and like with email, I'm not dependent on Google so I am again in the rare position to say "no, I'm not going to play your game" to Google. I'd rather encourage others to do the same than to give up and treat both email and search results as a walled garden.
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#135As someone who runs their own personal mail server, this annoys me to no end. I set up DKIM, SPF, and reverse-DNS records and resented every moment of it. Even after all that, there's some chance that an email from my server will be marked as insecure/spam or otherwise just not be delivered because Google has come up with some new brilliant mail security/auth/permission scheme that the world has to adopt tomorrow or…
It's not just email, it seems like any service is at risk of being ignored through malice or just being too tiny it gets neglected if it doesn't help the walled garden somehow. At one point I heard a rumor that no human had worked on Google Finance in over a year, simply because nobody was interested. Not their biggest service of course, but still a major site that presumably generates a lot of revenue. If they think…
That's very possible! It's definitely an amazing site and it's absolutely clear that it could drive revenue.
With that said, perhaps it might be like Google News, where it not only doesn't generate profits, but doesn't generate any revenue at all? Is it possible that being a major site and generating revenue might be entirely distinct?
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#136Can someone explain in simple terms why, in 2019, anyone is running their own mail server? Unless you are the sysadmin, server guy/gal, whatever, this just sounds like signing up for a world of hurt doing it yourself.
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just email, it seems like any service is at risk of being ignored through malice or just being too tiny it gets neglected if it doesn't help the walled garden somehow. At one point I heard a rumor that no human had worked on Google Finance in over a year, simply because nobody was interested. Not their biggest service of course, but still a major site that presumably generates a lot of revenue. If they think…
> but still a major site that presumably generates a lot of revenue That's very possible! It's definitely an amazing site and it's absolutely clear that it could drive revenue. With that said, perhaps it might be like Google News, where it not only doesn't generate profits, but doesn't generate any revenue at all? Is it possible that being a major site and generating revenue might be entirely distinct?
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#138I'm also one of those oldfarts that insists on hosting my private emails for me and a few friends. I've owned the ip since early 2000's and have had zero "spam"/blacklist incidents. One trend I've been noticing is that Microsoft/Outlook have regularly started to block me. I have to contact their abuse which takes a day or so to get unblocked. To date, I've done so >10 times: hotmail-com.olc.protection.outlook.com[104…
At >10 times I'd automate that process.
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
> While’s gmail’s filtering is obviously neither your responsibility nor under your control, you also can’t really fault people for using one of the most popular email services on the planet. Why not? Popularity does not imply quality. If it is a poor service, you can (and should) fault people for using it.
People's choice of email provider has very little bearing on their ability to do (e.g.) biology or economics research. Plus, most career centers actively advise students (i.e., many applicants) to sent up a professional-sounding gmail (or similar account) accounts. In short, it makes no sense. More broadly, grad school admissions--and, even moreso, faculty hiring--is already full of unwritten rules, backdoors, and ta…
People's choice of poor quality service provider X impacts their ability to do their tasks when the service is poor. X can be email, insurance, banking, anything you externalize in your life.
The fact that a service is popular is a poor indication of service quality, if there is a correlation at all. Examples abound for popular services and products that are poor quality. Usually, the best services are a bit up, from the popular choice point, in the price/quality ratio. More so if there are free (as in beer) offerings in the market.
Re: Google Is Eating Our Mail
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but still a major site that presumably generates a lot of revenue That's very possible! It's definitely an amazing site and it's absolutely clear that it could drive revenue. With that said, perhaps it might be like Google News, where it not only doesn't generate profits, but doesn't generate any revenue at all? Is it possible that being a major site and generating revenue might be entirely distinct?
There's no need to be nasty and sarcastic.
Let me restate. It is, in my opinion, possible that Google Finance is in a position like that of Google News and thus generates no revenue. Have you considered this possibility? Do you think it might affect the willingness of people to work on a product? If I'm utterly wrong, I would love to know so that I can avoid being wrong this way in the future.