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OpenBSD 6.5

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Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#131

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

chousuke wrote: post #55
yarrel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BSDs are operating systems. SystemD hasn't yet admitted that it is.

Hasn't admitted? As far as I know, it is an explicitly stated goal of the systemd project to provide an integrated (compared to whatever each distribution assembled together to provide one) base system on top of the Linux kernel with the intent of making the best use of the features provided by the kernel. It seems to me that Lennart looked at the tightly integrated base system + kernel approach of the BSDs and decid…

My understanding is that he was influenced in part by launchd.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#132

Post by nickpsecurity »

kbenson wrote: post #45
asveikau wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenBSD has done a few of these daemons over the years, where they reject existing popular implementations to do their own with their own priorties. I started typing a list but really there are too many, big and small. They tend to have the OpenBSD minimalist, security focused, "no bullshit" approach. It's not very much like systemd.

In a way, OpenBSD isn't really written in C. It's written in a special subset of C that uses some different, more secure core functions and any where any trade-off for performance instead of security is ruthlessly weeded out when reviewed by the people involved. I'm of the opinion that using C and C++ for future major work where there's not good reasons forcing you to is more trouble than it's worth, but I wouldn't m…

It's C with better libraries and coding standards for security. A different dialect might be something like Cyclone, Cilk, MetaC, Frama-C, or ZL that change the language to help them achieve their goals.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#133

Post by asveikau »

ColanR wrote: post #129
asveikau wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird thing, though, is that 90s Linux felt a little more like the BSDs than Linux usually does today. I mean, the BSDs were always a bit more coherent, but the default install of a typical Linux distro felt a lot less "heavy" in the past. You can switch from Linux to one of the *BSDs and feel like you are bringing back the glory days. Maybe this is a complaint about Ubuntu, or gnome, or systemd.

I just switched from ubuntu to OpenBSD, realized that it's not optimized for desktop usage, and have been happy with Void for a while now.

I would disagree. In my experience OpenBSD is pretty good on a desktop or laptop. I've had fewer driver issues with it than FreeBSD for example (mostly wifi and graphics).

But "optimized for desktop usage" is a very vague term with different meanings for everybody. My tastes are geared towards a light X workstation that doesn't add any extra whistles unless you ask for them. In the Linux world the closest I've seen to this is Arch. I also used debian for a long time (starting with netinst and no GUI, and adding things only as I need them).

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#134

Post by pfortuny »

Accacin wrote: post #115

As a long time Linux user, I keep thinking about trying a BSD variant, but I get hung up on two things. 1) Which do I pick? NetBSD? OpenBSD? 2) Hardware? I'm thinking about an old ThinkPad for programming, and it looks like OpenBSD at least should run fine on that. What's hardware support like overall?

I have installed OpenBSD on a 2006 (yep) MBPro. Charming.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#135

Post by aflag »

arendtio wrote: post #120
tedunangst wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The installer is not a live CD. It's only enough tooling to install openbsd.

Okay thanks, unexpected but good to know (at >340MB I would have expected a complete base system at least). Do you know if there is some up to date OpenBSD live CD somewhere?

If you just want to try it out, probably downloading a VM with vagrant is the easiest.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#136

Post by sogubsys »

geff82 wrote: post #117
Accacin wrote: post #115

As a long time Linux user, I keep thinking about trying a BSD variant, but I get hung up on two things. 1) Which do I pick? NetBSD? OpenBSD? 2) Hardware? I'm thinking about an old ThinkPad for programming, and it looks like OpenBSD at least should run fine on that. What's hardware support like overall?

An Thinkpad up to the 4-Series (x240,t440,t540) can run any BSD, but after that, OpenBSD is your best bet. NetBSD (the one I learned about Unix with) has fallen a bit behind in features and hardware support, it is rarely used for production any more (makes me sad, but that is how it is). FreeBSD has a giant set of features and has the most current and largest software library, yet it does not run perfect on newer Lap…

I think there's a bit of a difference in that NetBSD project itself (kernel and userland) run on all the platforms/architectures, and Linux (the kernel) supports a lot of platforms/architectures itself, you need to find userland that matches... usually finding a distro that is well supported.

NetBSD supports all architectures as part of itself as a whole, no need for distro searching.

One of the cool things about BSD is that kernel and userland are bundled/tightly-coupled together as one single unit. With Linux, you need to find the appropriate distro to help you outside of the few major platforms.

Apples and oranges comparison.

http://netbsd.org/about/portability.html

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#137

Post by JdeBP »

floatboth wrote: post #95
Hello71 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new recursive resolver instead of using unbound or dnsmasq systemd-resolv e d is a non-recursive resolver. so is dnsmasq.

What's the correct word for "something local that talks to 8.8.8.8/whatever and caches responses" if not recursive? Forwarding?

Forwarding, yes.

This terminology is tricky, and the fact that toast0 incorrectly thinks that this is a "stub resolver" is indicative of how people get this stuff wildly wrong. A "stub resolver" is in fact the client that makes requests of the server that you are asking about.

I use terminology borrowed from HTTP when explaining this to people. A DNS server that listens on a local IP address and makes back-end queries to another DNS server is a proxy DNS server, and the fact that it hands off all of the grunt work (of stitching together the back-end partial answers to make the front-end complete answers) to another proxy DNS server makes it a forwarding proxy DNS server. If it didn't hand off the grunt work and did all of the query resolution itself, talking directly to content DNS servers, it would be a resolving proxy DNS server.

And the software that is in applications, that formulates requests and sends them over to a proxy DNS server, is a DNS client library.

8.8.8.8 is a resolving proxy.

* http://jdebp.eu./FGA/dns-server-roles.html

* http://jdebp.eu./FGA/dns-query-resolution.html

* https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/500565/5132

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#138

Post by CameronNemo »

asveikau wrote: post #96
mikece wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really enjoy how simple the system is after all these years with Linux. I still shake my head when I think back to the 90s and how Linux managed to overtake the BSDs. Good to see they are still very much alive and moving forward.

The weird thing, though, is that 90s Linux felt a little more like the BSDs than Linux usually does today. I mean, the BSDs were always a bit more coherent, but the default install of a typical Linux distro felt a lot less "heavy" in the past. You can switch from Linux to one of the *BSDs and feel like you are bringing back the glory days. Maybe this is a complaint about Ubuntu, or gnome, or systemd.

You may like a distro such as Void or Alpine.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#139

Post by CameronNemo »

throw0101a wrote: post #52
Spivak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only connection that systemd-resolved has to the init system is the name prefix. Seems odd to praise the BSDs for developing everything in a single repo but faulting systemd for the same approach.

> Seems odd to praise the BSDs for developing everything in a single repo but faulting systemd for the same approach. I think it is more accurate to say that the (supposed) problem with systemd's approach is actually tight coupling as opposed to a single repo. OpenSSH, OpenSMTP, OpenBGPD, LibreSSL, Mandoc, the recent Unwind, etc, may all be in the same repo, but none depending on each other. Try taking systemd-resolv…

Chrome OS runs systemd-journald on top of Upstart. Not that such a setup is supported or encouraged.

One of my main gripes about resolved is the D-Bus interface. Lennart needs to remove his lips from that protocol's ass.

Re: OpenBSD 6.5

#140

Post by CameronNemo »

doodpants wrote: post #5

> Released May 1, 2019 Woah, it's from the future!

I have done this before. Marked a release in the changelog set to two weeks in the future, then installed from master and made sure nothing broke during those two weeks.
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