Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#131

Post by wozniacki » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #82

wozniacki wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, lets sweep the pandemic of knife crimes currently sweeping Europe - among a whole host of other related malaises and social evils too long to list here - neatly under the rug and call it a day.[1] [2] [1] Ten charts on the rise of knife crime in England and Wales https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089 [2] Germany: Stabbings and Knife Crimes at Record High https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13802/germany-sta…

UK homicide rate: 1.20 per 100,000 German homicide rate: 1.18 per 100,000 US homicide rate: 5.35 per 100,000 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

Well would you care to clarify how well these fine folks are doing in various European capitals while youre at it? Surely they are neither inking poetry at tony cafes nor building businesses, now are they? [1][2][3]

[1] Benefits Street S01E01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqvsF2bBu4o

[2] The Streets of Paris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Js8wntdk4

[3] Only Two Men Convicted After 1,200 Sexual Assaults In Cologne (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl04r1OjRQs

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#132

Post by Supernaut » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

wozniacki wrote: post #88

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

It may be that Europeans are deincentivized from creating enormously overvalued startups because their quality of life is much better Come on you didn't even have a ride-hailing service like Uber and relied on those stodgy black cabs. Ireland still doesn't have Uber or Lyft.[1] [1] Does Uber or Lyft exist in Dublin?? https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g186591-i88-k11258020-...

We don't have Uber or Lyft here because Europeans in general regard their business model as being highly problematic. It is nevertheless easy to hail a taxi in the cities, and you have the reassurance of knowing that the driver will be licensed and insured.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#133

Post by hello_friendos » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:03 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #106

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

Is that why people cannot afford insulin in America. This is something to be celebrated?

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#134

Post by coldtea » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:03 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #20

> In London, Paris, Berlin, I hop on the train, head to the cafe — it’s the afternoon, and nobody’s gotten to work until 9am, and even then, maybe not until 10 — order a carefully made coffee and a newly baked croissant, do some writing, pick up some fresh groceries, maybe a meal or two, head home — now it’s 6 or 7, and everyone else has already gone home around 5 — and watch something interesting, maybe a documentar…

>No, not everyone in Europe gets to live white-collar worker dream of writing poetry at the coffee shop and coming in late. See the people working at the coffee shop, the construction workers, garbage men, etc.

Even those categories have it quite better in Europe.

>One thing I love about America is that people still get shit done here. One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry.

Well, we have the companies we want to have.

As for the "innovative" companies, things like Facebook, Apple, Google, I increasingly hear that they were not that good for us to begin with, even less so BS like Instagram, Theranos, etc.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#135

Post by tastroder » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

wozniacki wrote: post #88

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

It may be that Europeans are deincentivized from creating enormously overvalued startups because their quality of life is much better Come on you didn't even have a ride-hailing service like Uber and relied on those stodgy black cabs. Ireland still doesn't have Uber or Lyft.[1] [1] Does Uber or Lyft exist in Dublin?? https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g186591-i88-k11258020-...

We don't have Uber in Germany either, instead we have labour and transportation safety laws that hinder a service like that. While that might be a trade-off one could certainly argue about I'm not sure why that would present an argument purely for people having Uber leading an objectively better life. I'd certainly prefer having the above in place and enough money to pay for a cab if I need one, even if it's maybe a tad less convenient at the moment.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#136

Post by frontloadpro » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #72

As an American who has lived in Europe for 5+ years: the single biggest issue with the States is that everything is filtered through a money-first mentality. Reading a book? It better be nonfiction, because fiction “isn’t real” and won’t help you get ahead. Writing a book? It’s only a success if it’s a best-seller. Studying a new language? Only worth it if you can monetize it somehow. Hate your job? Not a problem if…

Is this a real thing? My life is my job, family, side projects, and fun.

I don't know where you lived, but none of the people I know, Engineers and programmers think that they should be reading non fiction instead of playing video games.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#137

Post by warcode » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #71

exelius wrote: post #28

Americans don’t travel. If we did, we wouldn’t buy the myth of American exceptionalism. But then, we are largely becoming a country controlled by global financial interests rather than the population. Money is the deciding factor in our elections, and the most concentrated forms of wealth out there are sovereign wealth funds and large multinational corporations whose executives are largely above the law. Which means…

Money is not the deciding factor in American elections. Hillary Clinton spent twice as much as Donald Trump during the 2016 campaign.

From what I have learned it is the money you don't hear about that matters the most.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#138

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #86

cribbles wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason that Europe has very few innovative new companies created in the last 25 years is that everyone is at the coffee shop writing poetry. This does not dispute the central point of the quoted piece, which is that the quality of life of most Americans is very poor contrast to that of the average person in some subset of European countries. I would wager that most coffee shop employees are more concerned with…

Our quality of life is not poor. We just have different prioritizes. See the guy who lives in a double wide but has a Corvette in the driveway.

This whole entire argument is pretty strange to me.

It's upper class people from Europe debating with upper class people from the US where it's better for "middle class" people.

If you've read Picketty at all, it's pretty clear there is no middle class. And the only place in the world a true and sizeable middle class ever existed was the post WWII United States from like the 50s to (maybe as late as) the 90s.

Life sucks for lower class people everywhere. I suppose it's slightly less shitty for lower class people in Europe.

According to Picketty, the capital / income ratio had been substantially higher in Europe for the last 20 years than it is the US -- and at the time of writing Capital in the 21st century, it was still higher in Europe. That is to say, social mobility -- as depressingly low as it is in the modern US -- is (and has been) MUCH worse in Europe.

America's biggest flow truly is it's greatest strength. This is the most hopelessly optimistic group of people on the planet. Most Americans truly believe that one day they'll be successful.

You know why they believe that? Because for 40 years, this was really the only place in the world where that was plausible for an average Joe. It's still one of the few places where it's even slightly statically likely.

I think most people would trade hope for a slightly less shitty life.

I think that's why Americans don't really care that much why life for lower class people in Europe is slightly better than it is for people in the US.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#139

Post by carlmr » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:04 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #71

exelius wrote: post #28

Americans don’t travel. If we did, we wouldn’t buy the myth of American exceptionalism. But then, we are largely becoming a country controlled by global financial interests rather than the population. Money is the deciding factor in our elections, and the most concentrated forms of wealth out there are sovereign wealth funds and large multinational corporations whose executives are largely above the law. Which means…

Money is not the deciding factor in American elections. Hillary Clinton spent twice as much as Donald Trump during the 2016 campaign.

Campaign spending is not the whole picture. How many outside interests contributed otherwise to HC and DT in the last election?

You can start an ad campaign against a candidate you don't like without that showing up in the campaign fund.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#140

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #123

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we convince people if they kill themselves for corporate, they'll get a minuscule slice of money from the top. American dream and all that. At least people in Europe have hobbies.

Most Americans enjoy a level of live that Most Europeans can only dream of. Large cars, very large houses, every product they buy is at least 20 to 30% cheaper, they have access to the latest technologies... the list goes on and on. Hobbies do not make up for the lack of opportunities.

I never realised buying crap you don't need equated to a better life.