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Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#131

Post by PavlovsCat »

thisisweirdok wrote: post #117
PavlovsCat wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who says "but others will do it instead" to excuse something they're doing is those other people. And someone doing something evil that I chose to not do doesn't actually replace me -- I'm still me, and I'm still glad to have made that choice.

I don't think anyone's using that excuse to justify working for Google, I think they're just saying that a small number of people quitting Google isn't nearly enough to stop them. Google employs at least 20k engineers. I'd be shocked if 100 quit over this news. Google could be murdering kittens to cool servers with their blood and you could probably find enough competent engineers to keep 10 Google's fully staffed. T…

An infinite number of people working for Google cannot stop me from not working for them. Which makes no difference to them and all the difference to me.

Everybody dies anyway, nobody is remembered, or gets to keep anything; we can build what we want, end result is the same. The only brief moment of reality is our experience of the universe and the kind of life we lead, and if what you claim true for "the vast majority of people" was true, IMO that would just mean the vast majority are deeply sick and probably frightened shitless of death. That'd no doubt be very important for them, but how would it matter for me? Should I jump into their pool, to drown alongside them and make them feel better?

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#132

Post by LarryPage »

HAL9000Ti wrote: post #96
jayd16 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While its not necessarily my opinion, the issue is not about working in/with China, its about building a censored search engine.

Microsoft has a censored search engine live in China right now, where is the backlash against them?

I'm sure all three users revolted.

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#133

Post by fucking_tragedy »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #122
robbrit wrote: post #4

I think what will end up happening is Google employees will just self-sort until there aren't enough people left in the company to oppose projects like this. People who are strongly opposed on moral grounds will leave, further strengthening management's choices. While Google is probably sad to see them go, it would be even sadder to continue missing out on the world's largest market. I doubt the employee protests wil…

>While Google is probably sad to see them go, it would be even sadder to continue missing out on the world's largest market. Honestly what I see happening, if Google isn't allowed to position themselves for a rentry into China, is Baidu eventually making an international debut. They have been developing an entire google-esque eco system in a bubble for years now. If Google was there, they wouldn't have such a strangl…

Why would the CCP allow a foreign company to outcompete one of their own homegrown darlings?

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#134

Post by ladzoppelin »

supernova87a wrote: post #23

Google invited these long-term problems onto itself (and so did many other startups) by marketing a culture aside from their technology that got people to join them. "Do good" they said, which invited people to judge them and decide to work there based on whether they continued doing good. Compare to other companies that were not so "hot" that just promised some less fulfilling employment, but no strong moral or glob…

This post should be at the very top. What exactly has Google been telling its employees it stood for and what exactly can Google provide that others cannot? I am surprised the Chinese military would even allow this.

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#135

Post by fabianhjr »

> We think we have an open society because we can criticize our government, but the company we work for has far more impact on our lives, and if you criticize them publicly they will fire you. The private sphere is still run like a dictatorship, by thousands of petty tyrants. Source: https://twitter.com/existentialcoms/status/10515474130836520...

In this particular case, Google and other top tech companies tend not to fire employees for being too critical but still lack any sort of democratic control by their stakeholders (workers, community, etc). More on the matter: https://newsyndicalist.org/2017/09/30/union-cooperative-stra... >

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#136

Post by KorematsuFred »

G! employees opposition to Dragonfly is nothing but veiled colonial white man's burden idea rebooted. For most westerners the notion that other countries might have different systems, different values and yet not be savages or evil is hard to digest.

The same individuals would happily bend over and grease up when EU comes with idiotic Quxotian regulations, or when Congress passes stupid bills but somehow the idea that Google should comply with Chinese laws is unfathomable to these silicon valley hippies.

There is no need for China to uphold any American values including free speech and yet be a happy prospering society. Chinese people will figure out how to maximize their happiness in due course of time. Meanwhile Google can either make profit from world's largest market or end up at the bottom of heap of virtue signaling companies.

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#137

Post by jjeaff »

TACIXAT wrote: post #113
prepend wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a weird argument when applied to other areas. “Does it really change anything on the ground? Someone else will make the ovens and gas chambers?” “Does it really change anything on the ground? Someone else will assassinate Archduke Ferdinand?” Etc. being morally opposed to something and trying to abstain from supporting it is not the same as campaigning against something’s existence. I wouldn’t work for a…

I think your comparison to building gas chambers is hyperbolic and ridiculous.

So you are saying that China doesn't use their surveillance apparatus to find and murder political disedents?

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#138

Post by netsec_burn »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #131
thisisweirdok wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone's using that excuse to justify working for Google, I think they're just saying that a small number of people quitting Google isn't nearly enough to stop them. Google employs at least 20k engineers. I'd be shocked if 100 quit over this news. Google could be murdering kittens to cool servers with their blood and you could probably find enough competent engineers to keep 10 Google's fully staffed. T…

An infinite number of people working for Google cannot stop me from not working for them. Which makes no difference to them and all the difference to me. Everybody dies anyway, nobody is remembered, or gets to keep anything; we can build what we want, end result is the same. The only brief moment of reality is our experience of the universe and the kind of life we lead, and if what you claim true for "the vast majori…

Wonderfully put.

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#139

Post by the_duke »

TACIXAT wrote: post #113
prepend wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a weird argument when applied to other areas. “Does it really change anything on the ground? Someone else will make the ovens and gas chambers?” “Does it really change anything on the ground? Someone else will assassinate Archduke Ferdinand?” Etc. being morally opposed to something and trying to abstain from supporting it is not the same as campaigning against something’s existence. I wouldn’t work for a…

I think your comparison to building gas chambers is hyperbolic and ridiculous.

Well, China used to execute prisoners on demand if organ donations were needed. While not up there with the extermination of an entire religion, it is quite an impressive level of exploitation.

They also imprison a large amount of people in re-education camps.

Re: Google Employees Uncover Ongoing Work on Censored China Search

#140

Post by legohead »

o10449366 wrote: post #21

Google execs know that as long as they have the best benefits in the industry and keep their workers cushy they'll also have complete control over them. This is because when you're at the top of the food chain, very few people are actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and take meaningful action. It's deliciously hypocritical to see Google workers here (and HN posters in general) lament Facebook wor…

Have you ever worked at one of these "cushy" jobs? I've worked at a few. The sweet benefits wear off quick. There are usually one or two you really love, and you can easily find them in other companies.
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