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Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

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Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#131

Post by pell »

ghostwriter wrote: post #110
pell wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people with money are entitled to it then?

There's no entitlement in trades between landlords and people with money - everything happens on mutually beneficial terms. Landlords own property by the right of their investment into it, which was also a mutually beneficial transaction between them and the developers who built it and got rewarded for their work.

Yes, these are the rules of a free market. But if a society or a governing body has additional priorities, rules can be added to such a framework. So, in the end it actually is a question about entitlement. Is a landlord entitled to rent to the highest bidder or not. I'm not saying I'm necessarily entirely against this concept, but I doubt it should be the default situation.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#132

Post by vonmoltke »

beauzero wrote: post #112
helen___keller wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't completely agree with your assumption that living in Tokyo means you need to live in a shoebox (and especially not in Osaka which is about 2/3rds the price of Tokyo), but actually I think there's a case for cheap, somewhat-cramped housing with good transit access to the city, for those who want it. In Japan, a middle class family can own a somewhat cramped (say 900 sqft?) 3bedroom house/apartment walking dist…

...also loans (in the USA) are determined on the size of the house as collateral. You are incentivized to buy a large house and small land. I would rather buy large land and a small house so that I can grow more food, trees, other natural resources. Our family has no need for a large house and they are inefficient to cool and heat.

> ...also loans (in the USA) are determined on the size of the house as collateral.

What are you talking about? The collateral is the full property, not just the structure.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#133

Post by unobtaniumstool »

choeger wrote: post #17

Everyone and their cat wants to live as close as humanly possible to the hip center of the hip city. But of course, they literally do not want to pay the price. Why is there a vegan bakery specialized in Afghan Bagel[1] around the corner? Because there are enough hip, young professionals to pay for even the most unlikely specialty. Business can afford to cater to the most extraordinary taste, but only because there a…

Wow, your ignorant rant really turned racist at the end there.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#134

Post by 5166cc9c39fa61 »

tjansen wrote: post #50

I live in a different but still expensive Germany city and rent a apartment from a city-owned public housing company. The rent of the landlord's apartments is 20-30% lower than what you would pay in the free market, and in my neighbourhood I can get a pretty good idea of what people do to get one of those highly desired apartments. It's just crazy. I have heard everything short of bribing the person responsible for s…

> Many German cities are so overcrowded that you need to network like in socialism to get what you want, as there are things that money can't buy (or at least only a lot more money can buy).

Similar situation in New York City for the past decade: https://www.thedailybeast.com/stuck-in-new-york-city-private...

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#135

Post by marton78 »

tyfon wrote: post #44
adrianN wrote: post #9

The truth is that rents in Berlin are exceptionally cheap compared to other major cities. Try finding a flat in London or Paris for The only way to keep rents this low in the face of rising demand is public housing that is rented out below market rates to low income tenants, or via a lottery.

One of the reasons for the cheap rent is the fact that the population of Berlin is still below what it was prior to WWII. I found it quite baffling at least when I read about it. The city got hit _hard_

While this is true, many of the buildings destroyed in WW2 were never rebuilt. It's not like there is lots of empty housing standing around.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#136

Post by berlinerluft »

TelmoMenezes wrote: post #72
alasdair_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, housing is a right not a speculation opportunity. Let's say I agree with this idea and let's also ignore the fact that by stating it's a right, we are implicitly stating that someone else needs to pay for it with their own money if you cannot. If housing is a right, does that necessarily mean that housing in a specific area is a right? I mean, I'd love a beachfront property in Maui but we can't all have that. I…

> Let's say I agree with this idea and let's also ignore the fact that by stating it's a right, we are implicitly stating that someone else needs to pay for it with their own money if you cannot. Yup, we do that sort of thing all the time in Europe. I know zero people that went bankrupt because of an unexpected serious illness and I know zero people that dislike the idea that we should all pool our resources so that…

I am a renter in Berlin, so it is in my temporary interest if rents are limited (not talking about side effects, just in terms of short term thinking). But honestly, if you want to live in the same place for 30 years, maybe you should consider buying it?

If somebody offers my landlord double the price I am paying, why exactly should he be liable to keep me as a renter?

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#137

Post by berlinerluft »

md5person wrote: post #52
alasdair_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, housing is a right not a speculation opportunity. Let's say I agree with this idea and let's also ignore the fact that by stating it's a right, we are implicitly stating that someone else needs to pay for it with their own money if you cannot. If housing is a right, does that necessarily mean that housing in a specific area is a right? I mean, I'd love a beachfront property in Maui but we can't all have that. I…

> "I mean, I'd love a beachfront property in Maui but we can't all have that" The person you're replying to is basically saying: "having a place you can stay in, to keep you alive and going rather than homeless and broken, a safety net in essence - should be a right". Your response: "but we can't hand over free beachfront properties in Maui for everyone". You're diverting the discussion ("but look at what communism d…

No he doesn't. People get worked up about having to pay high rents in attractive locations (Berlin, or San Francisco, and so on).

There are actually places in Germany where it is difficult to find tenants and houses decay because nobody wants to live in them.

This is ALL about the beachfront property in Maui. That is the whole issue.

And frankly, as I personally didn't luck out to get one of those dirt cheap apartments in the center of Berlin, I don't quite see why I should consider other people to be entitled to it.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#139

Post by berlinerluft »

pell wrote: post #100
erik_seaberg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't just about having shelter, this is about having it in Berlin specifically. Who is entitled to that? The answer can't be "everyone".

So people with money are entitled to it then?

They are not entitled to it, they PAY for it. Amazing concept, I know.

Re: Berlin Builds Ideas to Stage a Housing Revolution

#140

Post by magduf »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #31
choeger wrote: post #17

Everyone and their cat wants to live as close as humanly possible to the hip center of the hip city. But of course, they literally do not want to pay the price. Why is there a vegan bakery specialized in Afghan Bagel[1] around the corner? Because there are enough hip, young professionals to pay for even the most unlikely specialty. Business can afford to cater to the most extraordinary taste, but only because there a…

Or make more hip city centers.

In most decent cities I've seen, there are: the city has several different "hip" areas, and you can easily travel between them with public transit. There isn't just one single downtown.
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