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Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#131

Post by s3r3nity »

userbinator wrote: post #110

Having worked at large companies before, I'm almost certain that more than one person working on the product raised the point "this has a microphone, why isn't it documented?" or "this has privacy implications", but was silenced. (Or it could be that everyone working at Google has been carefully chosen to not have such concerns; I do get that feeling sometimes too.)

I remember someone in a recent HN comment thread mentioning that, as an ex-Googler, Google today feels like Microsoft under Ballmer.

So while I agree with you, it _also_ wouldn't surprise me if someone raised the concern, but that person was on a different / more silo'ed team and therefore the concern never reached the execution stage. Herego too many management layers and/or nodes of entropy for communication.

But that's just a hypothesis.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#132

Post by dpark »

vegardx wrote: post #119
est31 wrote: post #25

Oh wow, this is amazing. There's been a lawsuit in court about someone in Germany who sued their landlord because the landlord has put a Google Nest fire alarm into their flat against their will, ignoring offers by the renter to put in a non-google-non-iot fire alarm at the renter's expense. The landlord won because apparently the court was not convinced that the fire alarm could spy on conversations [1]... What woul…

The microphone / motion sensor issues aside I would never sleep in an apartment where someone could remotely silent an alarm.

You have some serious enemies, huh?

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#133

Post by SilasX »

userbinator wrote: post #110

Having worked at large companies before, I'm almost certain that more than one person working on the product raised the point "this has a microphone, why isn't it documented?" or "this has privacy implications", but was silenced. (Or it could be that everyone working at Google has been carefully chosen to not have such concerns; I do get that feeling sometimes too.)

Reminds me of the time that school issued laptops where the camera could be remotely turned on when the student was using it at home (including in their bedroom), and somehow no one realized the pervy implications.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School...

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#135

Post by gcb0 »

dpark wrote: post #132
vegardx wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The microphone / motion sensor issues aside I would never sleep in an apartment where someone could remotely silent an alarm.

You have some serious enemies, huh?

projecting much? :)

I personally agree with the point being afraid of incompetence, not malice.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#136

Post by _ea1k »

vegardx wrote: post #119
est31 wrote: post #25

Oh wow, this is amazing. There's been a lawsuit in court about someone in Germany who sued their landlord because the landlord has put a Google Nest fire alarm into their flat against their will, ignoring offers by the renter to put in a non-google-non-iot fire alarm at the renter's expense. The landlord won because apparently the court was not convinced that the fire alarm could spy on conversations [1]... What woul…

The microphone / motion sensor issues aside I would never sleep in an apartment where someone could remotely silent an alarm.

AFAIK, you have to be in close physical proximity to the nest alarm to silence it.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#137

Post by dnbgfher »

est31 wrote: post #30
dnbgfher wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Google, I'm not sure how option 2 is supposed to be acceptable either. It is perfectly reasonable to be concerned about introducing an internet-connected microphone into your house. It doesn't even require assuming a malicious Google to see potential problems with this. You're one decent security flaw (in an IoT device no less) from anybody having a microphone in your house.

> You're one decent security flaw (in an IoT device no less) from anybody having a microphone in your house. Many people already have Android smartphones, so there is already a Google microphone in your house. The big difference is that you know that it has a microphone.

While true, the upgrade situation for Android is way better than for most IoT devices, which is saying something. And this is the sort of thing you may well keep for a decade. While you may still have other Google microphones, I would be a lot more worried about this one specifically being vulnerable at some point.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#138

Post by fixermark »

atemerev wrote: post #105

One would have thought that in post-Snowden world, such reassurances would be completely unacceptable. Yet many people even here are dismissing the case with the "conspiracy" catch-all label.

If there's one thing we've learned from post-Snowden world, it's that most people don't care enough to dodge the surveillance because most people didn't respond by voluntarily throwing out all their computing devices, smartphones, ISP service plans, etc.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#139

Post by smolder »

kmlx wrote: post #60
vermilingua wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google is well past conspiracy territory. They are a company whose bottom line depends on collecting as much user data as possible; in an economy that compels them to improve their bottom line by any means available. Is there really any doubt that google can and will spy on you if given the slightest opportunity?

Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. I think most of it is paranoia. I also think this kind of paranoia is detrimental to our evolution as a species. We should be sharing more, not hiding in our caves.

A better version of humanity wouldn't be risking anything by sharing excessively and would get all the benefits of transparency. The humanity of reality is still plagued with bad actors who would throw away everyone's future, throw away civility, seek out despotic rule, etc. We have an elaborate system of incentives and disincentives we rely on to maintain good faith participation in society, and despite our best efforts that system is flawed and also fragile enough that it could worsen dramatically. The way we are centralizing wealth, data, knowledge and power right now is really dangerous in my opinion.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#140

Post by justtopost »

jakeogh wrote: post #4
wpearse wrote: post #2

I wonder if Singapore Airlines has something new to say about the cameras in their IFE system? https://twitter.com/vkamluk/status/1097008518685573120

OT meta execute-our-code-or-else: "We've detected that JavaScript is disabled in your browser. Would you like to proceed to legacy Twitter?" [Yes] rhetorically... Why?

'Friendly' friction. At least its not the abhorrent red it.
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