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Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

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Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#131

Post by high_derivative »

Having recently gone through some interviewing (for machine learning research), a very cynical but overlooked aspect (in this thread) is the following:

After receiving an offer from a big tech company, the interviewing process has already completely turned me off from the idea of working there.

Now despite this being a dream position for many and me having no alternative but to take it currently, the smug interviewers have already gotten me in the corporate mind-set: No matter, the reputation and salary, treat it like any other job, do not bother being loyal - they will not be.

So the terrible interview process has at least the advantage of reminding future employees what they are signing up for.

I wonder what kind of psychological filtering is at play. Do employees feel loyalty after an interview process that is best described as hazing? Are they projecting the humiliation they experienced when interviewing future employees? That's always been my impression.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#132

Post by wiremine »

At my consultancy we recently streamlined our interview process:

1. Phone screen which takes 15 or 20 minutes. 2. The candidate fills out an essay, including showing us some code they're proud of. 3. If the essay ticks the boxes we conduct a 1 hour on site interview. We use the same a set of questions for every candidate, so the investment is easy to manage, and our team has a shared set of expectations on what is good or bad. 4. If the interview goes well, we give them a take home assignment. Takes between 2 and 6 hours, depending on how experienced the candidate is. Problem is in C and/or Python (or both) 5. We wrap up with a 2 to 3 hour onsite interview. We walk through the assignment and have a deeper conversation about culture and fit.

The results have been positive for us: we've made some great hires and weeded out some candidates who weren't a good fit.

We've also been able to scale it down to the process we use for interns.

The 1 hour interview has some typical programming interview questions, but we wrap them into a real-world example. The goal isn't to prove they know how to program, but more about allowing them to show us how they think/work out a problem.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#133

Post by brownbat »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #118
zinclozenge wrote: post #15

The less talked about absurdity is that successfully passing programming interviews is a skill itself. It's especially absurd because the time I spend developing that skill is less time spent developing skills and knowledge more directly relevant to my job. Yet, programming interview skill is more relevant to progressing my career. edit: now if you'll excuse me, I need to do some dynamic programming problems.

I've interviewed tons of engineers that ace the interview and you have no choice but to pass but you see later on writing abysmal code. The problem is that design, quality, and maintainability are not valued. As a result, you end up with extremely mediocre "hacky" engineers at larger companies that can spit out tons of valid code but lead to a tangled mess shortly thereafter. Worse, there's this huge emphasis on "big…

Does anyone just give you someone else's code and have you write tests and documentation for it?

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#134

Post by StreamBright »

Is it a surprise to anybody? My favourite example of interviews going bad is a tech company in SF asking to find cross currency arbitrage loops with all known currencies over the phone in the first round hiring data engineers for the ETL team. I am glad I did not pass that round.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#135

Post by je42 »

retzkek wrote: post #126
je42 wrote: post #111

I usually ask what's your strongest language; then ask questions about that programming language. f.e. if it is python: > how would you explain the with statement to a junior developer ? then increasingly difficult questions that go into the language runtime/concepts. one other favourite question of mine is: > Imagine, you got a standard website the serves data from a database. When a customer types in the url into t…

> Imagine, you got a standard website the serves data from a database. When a customer types in the url into the browser bar what needs to happen until the customer see the website. That's a favorite of mine too. It sets up a broad range of discussion without needing to spend much time setting up hypotheticals and lets the interviewee really delve into topics for which they have expertise and/or interest. It's also e…

exactly that you can have very interesting conversations. in a setting that the interviewee is most comfortable with, since the assumptions/details are determined by them.

it put the pressure a bit on you as interviewer, since you need to adapt your questions. but in general i found it quite easy when you have a rough plan on the topics to ask.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#136

Post by thoman23 »

rajeshmr wrote: post #128

You realize that this approach is flawed the moment there are blogposts / books ( e.g. Cracking the coding interview ) on how to crack it. The how to crack 'x' becomes a field altogether ( coaching / youtube videos / blogs / books etc ). Also, platforms like hackerrank are adding fuel to fire. I read the CEO write somewhere that he wished the below "were taught in schools : 1) Communicating complex ideas with clarity…

> "A couple of weeks of work with a task being assigned"

lol, OK

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#137

Post by selestify »

rajeshmr wrote: post #128

You realize that this approach is flawed the moment there are blogposts / books ( e.g. Cracking the coding interview ) on how to crack it. The how to crack 'x' becomes a field altogether ( coaching / youtube videos / blogs / books etc ). Also, platforms like hackerrank are adding fuel to fire. I read the CEO write somewhere that he wished the below "were taught in schools : 1) Communicating complex ideas with clarity…

Who has time to spend a few weeks off from their full time job just to interview?

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#138

Post by seanmcdirmid »

high_derivative wrote: post #131

Having recently gone through some interviewing (for machine learning research), a very cynical but overlooked aspect (in this thread) is the following: After receiving an offer from a big tech company, the interviewing process has already completely turned me off from the idea of working there. Now despite this being a dream position for many and me having no alternative but to take it currently, the smug interviewer…

Many interview processes generally paint the company in a grimmer picture than it actually is. So I would do additional research than turning down an offer because of a bad interviewing experience. Of course, you are completely in your right to do so, but it might not be the most optimal behavior.

Usually, interviewers are just bad at interviewing and aren't really aware of what proper behavior is. It actually isn't easy, nor is it a desirable activity nor do you really get points for it in your performance review.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#139

Post by StreamBright »

wiremine wrote: post #132

At my consultancy we recently streamlined our interview process: 1. Phone screen which takes 15 or 20 minutes. 2. The candidate fills out an essay, including showing us some code they're proud of. 3. If the essay ticks the boxes we conduct a 1 hour on site interview. We use the same a set of questions for every candidate, so the investment is easy to manage, and our team has a shared set of expectations on what is go…

Standard set of questions is a must, some companies do not realise that and surprised when totally random people show up on day 1.

Re: Harder programming questions do a worse job of predicting outcomes

#140

Post by throwawayinter2 »

Interviews are like taking the SAT or ACT. For better or worse they’re highly standardized and you just need to prepare. There are a bunch of different prep service like InterviewCake.com, Pramp.com, and PracticeCodingInterview.com that are good if you feel like you need more than just leetcode grinding.
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