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My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

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Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#131

Post by fixermark »

pdkl95 wrote: post #103
fixermark wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That default, sadly, would basically guarantee the thing doesn't work for all too many users. And as a consumer electronics product (especially in the sub-$50 price-range), the market-smart thing to do is configure the defaults to work in the saddle-point of worst-case and common scenario (i.e. badly-configured local router talking to a standards-hostile ISP's DHCP configurations).

The proper thing to do is to use the DNS settings the DHCP server provided and testing those settings by providing a server the device can lookup and connect to (with TLS). If the server proved it's authenticity, the DNS settings work. (some devices might cache this result, others might do this during startup) If an error occurs or a reasonably short timeout expires, the device can: if it has UI the user will see, it…

> it can report the problem to the user

How? And what should the user do with that information?

This device is not architected for users who know what DNS, DHCP, or TLS are, much less who care.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#132

Post by alias_neo »

tfehring wrote: post #126
shawnz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would you care about that? You're already connecting to Google's service, YouTube, so what does it change to use Google's DNS to resolve it? What is the circumstance where you'd care about not using Google's DNS but then connect to a Google service anyway? If Chromecasts allowed arbitrary web browsing, I would maybe see your point -- but they don't.

One reason to care is that https://pi-hole.net is DNS-based.

This was how I found out actually, see my other comment for more detail, but yes, this is one very good reason we would want control over our DNS.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#133

Post by shawnz »

driverdan wrote: post #111
shawnz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would you care about that? You're already connecting to Google's service, YouTube, so what does it change to use Google's DNS to resolve it? What is the circumstance where you'd care about not using Google's DNS but then connect to a Google service anyway? If Chromecasts allowed arbitrary web browsing, I would maybe see your point -- but they don't.

> But why would you care about that? The reason doesn't matter. We should be in control of our own networks. Google shouldn't be deciding for us.

Would you say that Google is "controlling your network" if they just hard-coded the IP for YouTube? This is effectively the same but with one layer of indirection in between. What's the difference?

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#134

Post by josteink »

joshstrange wrote: post #123
josteink wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not HTTPS. DNS over HTTPS. If we create internet infrastructure (like DNS over HTTPS) which prevents network operators from actually operating their networks, I’m 100% confident we will find it has bad, unintended and irreversible consequences.

If by "network operators" you mean ISP's then I don't care. They have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are malicious ones more often than not and I want them to be a dumb pipe NOT someone who is mucking around with my network. I will take being able to PICK who I trust my DNS with over being forced to use my ISP's any day of the week. One of those things I can change, one of them I cannot.

By network operator I mean me, the person controlling my own local network.

Also: ISPs behave nice almost everywhere in the world where there is proper regulation.

What you have in the US is not a technical problem. It’s a regulatory one.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#135

Post by fixermark »

driverdan wrote: post #111
shawnz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would you care about that? You're already connecting to Google's service, YouTube, so what does it change to use Google's DNS to resolve it? What is the circumstance where you'd care about not using Google's DNS but then connect to a Google service anyway? If Chromecasts allowed arbitrary web browsing, I would maybe see your point -- but they don't.

> But why would you care about that? The reason doesn't matter. We should be in control of our own networks. Google shouldn't be deciding for us.

You are in control of your own network.

Map 8.8.8.8 to the machine of your choosing.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#136

Post by scrollaway »

IncRnd wrote: post #108
scrollaway wrote: post #14

I'm always shocked at how easy it is for people to fall into the "Google is evil!!1" trap on such trivial stuff (and funnily enough, much more serious privacy issues related to Google are ignored/downvoted). Hardcoded DNS servers are common. Extremely common in a bunch of IOT devices, given how broken some ISPs are. This is a non-story and the only reason it's being upvoted is because Google is doing it, and they als…

The author of that email, Paul Vixie, is not some random person saying, "Google is evil!!!" He is eminently qualified to speak about DNS, since he designed it.

And did I suggest he wasn't qualified to speak about DNS?

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#137

Post by rmoriz »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #114
rmoriz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pi-hole also blocks tracking services. And I'm sure chromecast is full of tracking to enhance the value of your account.

Surely you'd know, right? As Pi-Hole logs all of this stuff.

just install apps or use chrome to browse (on Chromecast Ultra of course)

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#138

Post by alias_neo »

FactolSarin wrote: post #81
apostacy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a case of an IOT device though. My Chromecast went through massive amount of trouble to use Google's DNS servers, to serve ads behind my pi-hole. It would respect all of my DHCP parameters, but silently ignore DNS settings. It was clearly intentional to serve ads. I had to set up a firewall to force it to use my DNS server. And eventually even that stopped working with an update (which themselves are reall…

The Chromecast doesn't serve ads. Individual services you run on it might, but I doubt those are being served through Google's DNS server.

The Chromecast hard-codes Google DNS so _any_ service you run on it resolves through Google DNS.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#139

Post by unethical_ban »

Jared Mauch's response was pretty rude.

I don't mind defaults, but I do not like the inability to change.

I wonder if it was clearly documented as a device requirement that 8.8.8.8 was needed. All prerequisites of function should be in the Quick Start Guide of the tool in question. Furthermore, users aren't always in control of the firewall/ACL on their network. If I go to Jack's Organic Coffee for a meeting and they only allow 1.1.1.1 out for DNS, I can't use my cast device? That's screwy.

Re: My Chromecast Ultra would not start until I began answering 8.8.8.8

#140

Post by alias_neo »

Legogris wrote: post #120
apostacy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a case of an IOT device though. My Chromecast went through massive amount of trouble to use Google's DNS servers, to serve ads behind my pi-hole. It would respect all of my DHCP parameters, but silently ignore DNS settings. It was clearly intentional to serve ads. I had to set up a firewall to force it to use my DNS server. And eventually even that stopped working with an update (which themselves are reall…

Could you solve this by just routing 8.8.8.8 to your own DNS inside your network?

This is how I solved it.

Someone above says an update prevented this somehow, though.

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