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Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

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Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#131

Post by dgudkov »

stcredzero wrote: post #13
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

A Cadillac is not just an expensive car, it is an expensive car to own. (Gas, repair bills, etc.) If you are a W-2 worker you have to be at work at a certain time and you need a car that can start every morning so you can get to work on time. Higher class people can afford multiple cars, take time off from work, take a cab, etc. The Cadillac brand is appealing to many lower class Americans so you often see them in "b…

Higher class people can afford multiple cars, take time off from work, take a cab, etc. It's a pattern. People with money will deliberately show they can spend more money. Those wide, droopy sleeves you sometimes see in historical shows? Rich people simply bought clothes that used more fabric, just so they could show they could afford it. The Cadillac brand is appealing to many lower class Americans According to the…

>Those wide, droopy sleeves you sometimes see in historical shows? Rich people simply bought clothes that used more fabric, just so they could show they could afford it.

As far as I know it was to demonstrate that the owner of such clothes doesn't have to work. Because such clothes make it extremely difficult to perform any manual work.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#133

Post by danans »

clouddrover wrote: post #120
danans wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that CR article: > Tesla fell six spots from last year and now ranks third-worst (27 out of 29). The Model S dropped to “Below Average” this year, and its Overall Score is no longer high enough to be “Recommended” by CR. Owners reported suspension problems and other issues that included the extending door handle. (Please see chart below.) The Model X SUV remained “Much-Worse-Than-Average” for reliability, with o…

> Note that none of those issues appear to be related to the electric battery and drivetrain. I don't think it makes much difference what the failure is if the end result is that you can't sensibly drive the car. If the display fails in a Tesla Model 3, for example, then that's a critical failure because you lose all dashboard information. In contrast, if the display failed in my car then I'd lose access to some feat…

> If the display fails in a Tesla Model 3, for example, then that's a critical failure because you lose all dashboard information.

That's a design issue with Teslas, not with EVs in general.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#134

Post by sitkack »

This is always true, the mass produced thing is going to have manufacturing lines that are tuned. And Toyota or Chevy can't afford to have a recall on something they made 100k of . Bespoke luxury vehicles are nearly hand made, with all the errors that hand building entails.

Wear a timex, drive a toyota, compute with a thinkpad, listen to a yamaha and process with a cuisanart.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#135

Post by thucydidesofusa »

kw71 wrote: post #49
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, you gotta understand that's for the first 3 years only and the consumer reports is only for the first 10 years. Once you get beyond 10 years, any mechanic will tell you the European cars are absolute garbage. Especially BMW, Audi and Mercedes will self destruct at some point after 10 years. And those parts cost a heck of a lot more than non-luxury brands. Sometimes, they won't even sell you a part by its own pie…

Last quarter I quit my job at one of the world's largest automakers and for twelve years I've had a small business on the side that serves specialist mechanics of all kinds, so I talk to dealership and indy mechanics all the time. I think you need a lot more experience with automobiles before you are qualified to say such things. I have a 22 year old 3 and a 26 year old 5. Neither have ever been in the shop for anyth…

How do you know about parts costs on your BWM if they haven't been in the shop for anything more than tires?

The parent comment may have been a little loose with the language but adage is that Japanese cars tend to be the cheapest to keep running. I'm shocked to hear that a 5 series and a 3 series went over 22 years with minimal service, you must have replaced at least a cooling system? Conversely, if someone tells us they're driving a 90s Camry, it's very plausible they're telling you the truth.

Your Toyota's ball joints may cost more at the dealer service desk, but you can pretty routinely find a huge discount buying from a dealer online. There used to be a Lexus dealer that did this (Sewell Lexus in Texas IIRC) but Toyota dealers sell Lexus parts on eBay. Additionally a lot of the wear items and longer-lifespan wear items (e.g. alternators, timing belts, wheel bearings) can be purchased from the O.E.M with a bit of research.

There's a reason that it's much easier to get old European car parts, and it's easy to source American car parts in America but in the rest of the world they probably have the same problems.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#136

Post by DrScump »

ams6110 wrote: post #90
potta_coffee wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.

Older Toyotas rust horribly, especially the trucks, but are mechanically very solid. I've had rust issues with Nissans also. Honda seems to have it figured out. I've been quite happy with Ford also. Chrysler products are the worst I've ever owned from a reliability standpoint, most of my issues with them have been electrical not mechanical though.

  Older Toyotas rust horribly, especially the trucks
My 25 year old Toyota SR5 pickup has no rust at all.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#137

Post by black-tea »

diddid wrote: post #79

I think one thing to remember that people who buy a Toyota drive it like it's... a Toyota. Cars that are driven hard will break down faster than cars that aren't, and I'm guessing the average BMW is pushed harder than the average Toyota. My wife can put a hole in a pair of nice running shoes faster than I can even wear tread off of a junky pair. Use matters, not all miles are equal.

You can get fun Toyotas. Celicas and Supras will be driven hard. They are still reliable.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#138

Post by magduf »

albeec13 wrote: post #71
magduf wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wants heated and cooled seats. You're not going to find that in any fleet vehicle.

Those aren't necessarily mandatory, but it certainly seems a lot of the safety tech is not available unless you also get things like that. For reference, my wife and I bought a 2014 Mazda 6 Touring, which seems to be one of the few cars with a well-balanced mid-tier that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and still has good safety features (and did not come with heated/cooled seats).

Yeah, I got a 2015 Mazda 3 Grand Touring so I could get the heated seats, among other things (like xenon headlights, which are an important safety feature; halogen headlights should be banned, and the IIHS agrees with me).

But of course it also comes with a clunky and nearly useless nav system that costs a fortune if you look at the line-item cost. They only recently, finally, started supporting Android Auto.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#139

Post by rms25 »

shadowbannedtoo wrote: post #89
potta_coffee wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.

Yea, older Toyotas are really dependable. Late 80's, and early 90's are dead simple. Make sure it's a manual tranny. I'm in the process of buying a newer car/truck for a family member, and it's depressing. So many sensors, and computers that dealership mechanics barely comprehend. I understand it's for emissions, but so many of those sensors are for comfort systems, and selling gizmos. The problem being is when they…

lol simple vehicle? maybe a lada niva (not sold in the US I think?) nothing fancy but easy to fix

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#140

Post by albeec13 »

magduf wrote: post #138
albeec13 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't necessarily mandatory, but it certainly seems a lot of the safety tech is not available unless you also get things like that. For reference, my wife and I bought a 2014 Mazda 6 Touring, which seems to be one of the few cars with a well-balanced mid-tier that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and still has good safety features (and did not come with heated/cooled seats).

Yeah, I got a 2015 Mazda 3 Grand Touring so I could get the heated seats, among other things (like xenon headlights, which are an important safety feature; halogen headlights should be banned, and the IIHS agrees with me). But of course it also comes with a clunky and nearly useless nav system that costs a fortune if you look at the line-item cost. They only recently, finally, started supporting Android Auto.

Yep, I've been mulling some DIY work on replacing the headlights and adding foglamps... Despite appearing bright on my garage door, the actual street visibility of the standard headlights is pretty awful on this car.

I'm not sure about 2015 Mazda 3, but I know 2016 and later cars can be upgraded to support Android Auto for a fee at the dealer (I want to say ~$500, which may or may not be worth it).

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