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Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

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Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#131

Post by roboys »

mcphage wrote: post #126
roboys wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are s…

> Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony. I read that Bloomberg article as more of a swipe at Apple and Amazon than at SuperMicro—especially given the tenor of other articles they've posted, as well as the fact that both companies responded forcefully almo…

You should see what happened to Supermicro's (SMCI) marketcap during those fake reports, the swipe didn't affect AAPL & AMZN's stock price near as much, if at all.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#132

Post by dmix »

GeekyBear wrote: post #110

It seems peculiar for stories to continue to ignore the economic situation inside China as a major cause for Apple's sales woes inside China, especially given the number of companies not named Apple that have also reported plunging sales there. We've had reports of a worsening job market and reduced consumer spending inside China since last year. >DONGGUAN, China — China’s consumers and businesses are losing confiden…

The first bullet in their sub-headline does say:

> IPhone’s high price tag is a major reason for the contraction

That combined with lower consumer confidence could easily be the most obvious reason. With a small amount of nationalistic propaganda/marketing thrown in.

The other big elephant in the room is WeChat becoming the primary Chinese mobile OS, diminishing the value of Android vs iOS. Which puts further pressure on the price of the phones, as they are more commodity-like. Apple raising prices, particularly in China, at this time might end up being the worst business idea they've made in a long time.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#133

Post by flyingpenguin »

roboys wrote: post #130
steve19 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting a million people into re-education camps is simply terrible. There is no justification for it.

You are right, re-education camps to de-radicalize are bad but they are objectively better than our method of killing 1+ million civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan in the name of anti-terrorism then leaving a vacuum for ISIS to continue the mayhem and destabilize the whole region.

Are they objectively better? I have a hard time seeing either as better than the other, just horrifying in their own unique ways.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#134

Post by stephencanon »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #118
stephencanon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a reasonable interpretation, thanks. I’m not sure that it tells us much given that Apple and Hermès are in fairly different markets, unfortunately.

They're both in the luxury fashion market in China.

The population of people who can justify a $1k scarf is a small portion of the population who can justify $1k for the object they use for almost everything, even in China.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#135

Post by roboys »

flyingpenguin wrote: post #133
roboys wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, re-education camps to de-radicalize are bad but they are objectively better than our method of killing 1+ million civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan in the name of anti-terrorism then leaving a vacuum for ISIS to continue the mayhem and destabilize the whole region.

Are they objectively better? I have a hard time seeing either as better than the other, just horrifying in their own unique ways.

Dead or detained for a few days/weeks/months? I would choose detention. Don't want to speak for dead Iraqis but I expect the majority would choose temporary detention at camps too.

At least the Uyghurs have the option of moving to Turkey post-detention if they feel this action by the Chinese government to keep peace within its borders is truly unjust.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#136

Post by sydli »

roboys wrote: post #122
ardy42 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt ev…

Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are s…

It's an anti-separatist crackdown that can be compared to China's similar crackdown on Tibet. In fact, the top official (Chen QuanGuo) who ran and experimented with surveillance technology and forced assimilation in Tibet was transferred to Xinjiang in 2017 to essentially build up and run the same type of program, in less time, and for a much larger region (in both area and population). Hence, the camps.

In no way is any of it justified-- it's millions of people, and even the Uyghurs that escape are being continually hunted by the government.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#137

Post by tivert »

roboys wrote: post #130
steve19 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting a million people into re-education camps is simply terrible. There is no justification for it.

You are right, re-education camps to de-radicalize are bad but they are objectively better than our method of killing 1+ million civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan in the name of anti-terrorism then leaving a vacuum for ISIS to continue the mayhem and destabilize the whole region.

> re-education camps to de-radicalize

That's bullshit. The camps aren't there to "de-radicalize" anyone, they're there to subjugate and destroy a minority culture.

This is proven because this government campaign also targets "moderates" of that culture, even ones that have gone out of their way to declare loyalty to the state:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/05/world/asia/china-xinjiang...

> Last year, Mr. Jalaleddin joined a government-led campaign for prominent Uighurs to write open letters declaring their allegiance to the state.

> Despite that declaration, he was detained in January 2018 [emphasis mine], according to overseas Uighur organizations.

> “So many moderate intellectuals have been detained now,” Dr. Harris said. “I don’t know how else to understand this, except as a deliberate policy to deprive Uyghurs of their cultural memory.”

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#138

Post by jjcc »

yonkshi wrote: post #76

Currently visiting China for Chinese New Year, and can't help but to notice the anti-US anti-Apple sentiment that arose recently. Although anecdotal, I think the nationalistic sentiment has a lot to do with the dip in sales. To put in perspective, most Chinese netizens are generally pretty critical of the Chinese gov. Chinese with higher educations usually look up to western culture and products. However after the Hu…

I totally agree with your observation. I've been there in last Dec and this Jan. Probably the hostile sentiment is even stronger towards Canada (Which traditionally most Chinese see as a friendly country partially because of a couple of famous Canadian who are almost unknown to Canadian themselves.) than US. Since I'm Chinese Canadian, the topic was always brought up during dinner/lunch with friends.

However I'm not sure if the boycott really has a big impact on sales. The consumers quite pragmatic when they spend their own hard-earned money even the sentiment is really strong as you observed. In China there are cut-throat competitions across all markets. Mobile phone market is one of them. There are quite a few smartphone manufacturers fighting for market share. Some used-to-be-good companies could not survive but the news only limited in China. Without boycott Apple sales still could go down because of competition.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#139

Post by tivert »

roboys wrote: post #135
flyingpenguin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they objectively better? I have a hard time seeing either as better than the other, just horrifying in their own unique ways.

Dead or detained for a few days/weeks/months? I would choose detention. Don't want to speak for dead Iraqis but I expect the majority would choose temporary detention at camps too. At least the Uyghurs have the option of moving to Turkey post-detention if they feel this action by the Chinese government to keep peace within its borders is truly unjust.

> At least the Uyghurs have the option of moving to Turkey post-detention if they feel this action by the Chinese government...

That's more bullshit. How are they supposed to do that when the government that's detaining them is also confiscating their passports [1] [2]? And why would that government give those people the "option" of moving to Turkey when it simultaneously condemns Turkey for taking the refugees [3] and demands Uyghurs trying to escape be returned to China [4]?

[1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/11/21/china-passports-arbitrar...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38093370

[3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-turkey-thailand/chi...

[4] https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/10/12/malaysia-defies-china-...

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#140

Post by GeekyBear »

dmix wrote: post #132
GeekyBear wrote: post #110

It seems peculiar for stories to continue to ignore the economic situation inside China as a major cause for Apple's sales woes inside China, especially given the number of companies not named Apple that have also reported plunging sales there. We've had reports of a worsening job market and reduced consumer spending inside China since last year. >DONGGUAN, China — China’s consumers and businesses are losing confiden…

The first bullet in their sub-headline does say: > IPhone’s high price tag is a major reason for the contraction That combined with lower consumer confidence could easily be the most obvious reason. With a small amount of nationalistic propaganda/marketing thrown in. The other big elephant in the room is WeChat becoming the primary Chinese mobile OS, diminishing the value of Android vs iOS. Which puts further pressur…

If Bloomberg's theory were true and the price of Apple's devices was the major issue here (and not the Chinese economy) then we would expect to see similar sales drops outside of China, and we have not.

Also, we wouldn't expect to see falling sales in China across all of the device manufacturers (even those selling budget devices) inside China as shown in even this article.

The reality is that the major factor here is that Chinese consumers are cutting way back on spending due to economic uncertainty inside China.

It's something that has been discussed in the media since last year.

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