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JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

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131–140 of 235 posts

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#131

I recently thought about email being based on such an old standard and then I wondered if maybe it didn't matter anymore, because most of the web is moving to gmail, and my guess is (and somebody please correct me) that when I send an email from gmail to gmail, that no actual SMTP is involved? I'm assuming that they have some internal protocol that is just adapter'd to "Email" at the very end?

I hear of a lot more people moving away from Gmail than moving to Gmail.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#132
post #12

The main failure in mail standards is a lack of explicit utf8 clean support lhs@rhs -if this got fixed (it's often called universal acceptance) a lot of things about mail as an ecology would improve. I have view on the spam thing. The whole "your idea will not work because" meme is hugely destructive of innovation in email. It sucks energy and mindshare. It's classic old timer put down. What would (imnsho opinion) ha…

> What would (imnsho opinion) have fixed spam is sender pays. I've debated this with a lot of people. We're 50/50 on it. Fifty agree with me, fifty million don't. Along with the billions of spam SMS that are also supposed to be sender-pays, sadly

Is this in the US? I've had SIM cards in three European countries, never received a spam SMS.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#133
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a happy Fastmail customer too, until I was made aware that you can impersonate other Fastmail customers by just spoofing the email address. Their servers just happily accept it. SPF and DKIM all pass with flying colours, and the only way you'd know it's happened is if you have DMARC on and happen to notice a pass in the report you don't remember sending. Well, that is if the recipient doesn't reply to the s…

Is there anything in the email headers that shows the authenticated user? My preference would be that email providers rewrite the From: header to match the authenticated user and that the sender uses the Reply-To: header to direct replies to a destination of their choice.

Not good enough, as many email clients show both of these fields. The whole idea why people use this is to send and receive with one address only, even if you've authenticated with another.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#134
post #104
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't imagine who would waste their money in re-invented umbrellas, maybe it is an hipster thing.

Just as one example, wind resistant umbrellas have an actual useful feature regular umbrellas don't have.

Given that regular umbrellas cost 3 euros on average, how much do those cost?

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#135

I really want to see some innovation in the email space. The landscape is like a sea of false promises and dashed dreams. SMTP is one of the bread-and-butters of the internet, yet it just doesn't seem to be moving forward (maybe that's for the best), and no one's building extensions on top of it. Maybe I'm naive in thinking it was possible but we could have avoided this whole "make an account on X messenger so we can…

Email is "good enough". The real hole is "instant messaging". Somehow every few years we got from ICQ to AIM to Paltalk to Skype to Facebook Messenger to Slack to ... (at least Altassian had the decency to take HipChat behind the woodshed and shoot it) The strange thing is that these services dry up, blow away, get replaced, but they don't seem to improve on what came before. There is a standard, XMPP, but the only p…

Well, there's [Matrix](https://matrix.org) in this space which I would characterize as pushing.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#136
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

filters cannot be applied retroactively, however. be sure to write your filters before receiving anything. Especially important if you're importing your email for the first time... and insanely annoying if you want to debug such an advanced filter. as always with fastmail: It has great features... but always with a massive caveat.

Ooooof, wow, thanks for the heads up. There's no way that's going to work... I edit my filters and apply them retroactively... There's no way I can set them in stone the first time. :( is there any email service that doesn't have this limitation?

Its not on FastMail, its on Sieve. It is a hook that runs on receiving. To my knowledge if you want Sieve this is the only option. I use it with Protonmail and it is the same way. I also run it on my own mailserver.

One nice thing, for me at least, is it runs prior to the email ending up in your inbox and I am uses to Outlook rules were rules execute post arrival.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#137
post #12

The main failure in mail standards is a lack of explicit utf8 clean support lhs@rhs -if this got fixed (it's often called universal acceptance) a lot of things about mail as an ecology would improve. I have view on the spam thing. The whole "your idea will not work because" meme is hugely destructive of innovation in email. It sucks energy and mindshare. It's classic old timer put down. What would (imnsho opinion) ha…

> What would (imnsho opinion) have fixed spam is sender pays. Alternate but similar - sender holds the email until the receiver fetches: https://cr.yp.to/im2000.html I'm not sure it actually helps that much to cut down spam but anything is worth a try at this point.

That sounds like a nice way to allow the sender to work out whether the receiver mailbox is active.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#138

I really want to see some innovation in the email space. The landscape is like a sea of false promises and dashed dreams. SMTP is one of the bread-and-butters of the internet, yet it just doesn't seem to be moving forward (maybe that's for the best), and no one's building extensions on top of it. Maybe I'm naive in thinking it was possible but we could have avoided this whole "make an account on X messenger so we can…

Email is "good enough". The real hole is "instant messaging". Somehow every few years we got from ICQ to AIM to Paltalk to Skype to Facebook Messenger to Slack to ... (at least Altassian had the decency to take HipChat behind the woodshed and shoot it) The strange thing is that these services dry up, blow away, get replaced, but they don't seem to improve on what came before. There is a standard, XMPP, but the only p…

IRC works pretty well. I really fail to understand why any tech project puts their chat on Slack/Discord/Whatever when IRC is easy and open.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#139
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a happy Fastmail customer too, until I was made aware that you can impersonate other Fastmail customers by just spoofing the email address. Their servers just happily accept it. SPF and DKIM all pass with flying colours, and the only way you'd know it's happened is if you have DMARC on and happen to notice a pass in the report you don't remember sending. Well, that is if the recipient doesn't reply to the s…

Is there anything in the email headers that shows the authenticated user? My preference would be that email providers rewrite the From: header to match the authenticated user and that the sender uses the Reply-To: header to direct replies to a destination of their choice.

Fastmail includes a header - decodable only by Fastmail - that can identify the sender account. And IP address if sent through SMTP.

Re: JMAP: Like IMAP but Not Really

#140
post #12

The main failure in mail standards is a lack of explicit utf8 clean support lhs@rhs -if this got fixed (it's often called universal acceptance) a lot of things about mail as an ecology would improve. I have view on the spam thing. The whole "your idea will not work because" meme is hugely destructive of innovation in email. It sucks energy and mindshare. It's classic old timer put down. What would (imnsho opinion) ha…

> What would (imnsho opinion) have fixed spam is sender pays. I've debated this with a lot of people. We're 50/50 on it. Fifty agree with me, fifty million don't. I propose a scheme where the sender pays e.g. 5 ct per e-mail (low enough that it does not matter for legitimate use, but high enough to make spam unprofitable). BUT with the following twist: The receiver can generate API tokens that allow free e-mail deliv…

You could do away with the 5ct part of this, just by requiring a special header to get around the api part.

Then you funnel all that junk into a special folder (black hole) that you can either ignore or check if you are expecting a legit request for your attention.

The more I think about it, the more I love this idea. All email that shows up in your inbox is there because you have to explicitly allowed it.

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